♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> Rooney: I'M EMILY ROONEY.

WELCOME TO "BEAT THE PRESS."

OUR TOPICS: ARE YOU A "NEWS AVOIDER"?

A NEW STUDY REVEALS WHY PEOPLE ARE TUNING OUT.

ELECTION DENIERS AND CONSPIRACY THEORISTS ARE STILL MAKING THE TALK SHOW ROUNDS.

WHAT GIVES?

AND, MAYORAL CANDIDATE ANNISSA ESSAIBI-GEORGE TAKES ISSUE WITH THE "GLOBE" FOR QUESTIONING HER CULTURAL IDENTITY.

PLUS, OUR PANEL'S RANTS AND RAVES OF THE WEEK.

JOINING ME ARE THE "BOSTON GLOBE'S" LYLAH ALPHONSE JOANNA WEISS OF NORTHEASTERN UNIVERSITY'S "EXPERIENCE" MAGAZINE, JON KELLER OF WBZ NEWS, AND FORMER NPR HOST, JEREMY HOBSON.

FIRST UP, A RECENT STUDY BY RESEARCHER STEPHANIE EDGERLY SAYS PEOPLE ARE TURNING OFF THE NEWS, A SYNDROME CALLED "NEWS AVOIDANCE."

BUT WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT THIS STUDY?

THE TURN-OFF IS NOT FOR ALL THE REASONS YOU MIGHT THINK.

NO QUESTION THE NEWS THESE DAYS IS GRIM; GOOD OLD-FASHIONED NEWS FATIGUE HAS BEEN AROUND FOR DECADES, PEOPLE TIRED OF A STEADY DRUMBEAT OF DEPRESSING STORIES.

BUT, ACCORDING TO A NEW STUDY, THAT'S NOT THE ONLY THING TURNING NEWS CONSUMERS OFF THESE DAYS.

THERE'S MORE.

>> OUR ELECTION WAS NOT STOLEN, AND AMERICA HAS NOT FAILED.

>> Rooney: TURNS OUT POLITICS IS THE NUMBER ONE REASON PEOPLE ARE STEERING CLEAR OF NEWS.

ALSO MAKING THE LIST?

>> MR. NAVALNY WHO IS ON HUNGER STRIKE IS SET TO BE SERIOUSLY ILL. A PERCEPTION THAT THE NEWS LACKS RELEVANCE.

AND APPARENTLY THERE IS A YEARNING FOR THE OLD DAYS, WHEN NEWS OPTIONS WERE SIMPLER, AS PEOPLE CITED "TOO MANY CHOICES" AS ANOTHER REASON.

AND ALL THAT, SAYS THE STUDY, LEADS TO, "LOW NEWS SELF-EFFICACY."

IN OTHER WORDS, PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHAT NEWS SOURCE TO TRUST.

>> TO FEEL THAT YOU'RE PART OF THIS PLACE, NOT A VISITOR.

>> Rooney: AT LEAST ALL NOT ALL MEDIA IS HURTING.

FTC NETFLIX HAS PICKED UP 10 MILLION SUBSCRIBERS DURING THE PANDEMIC, AND THEIR DOCUMENTARIES ARE DOING VERY WELL.

YOU KNOW JOANNA, I WONDER IF NEWS AVOIDANCE IS NOT A EASIER WAY OF SAYING, I'D RATHER WATCH NETFLIX.

BY THE WAY, STEPHANIE EDGERLY HAS DONE OTHER STUDIES AND NEWS FATIGUE COMES INTO IT, INTO PLAY SORT OF A FEELING THAT THERE'S A REPETITION OF STORIES.

BUT SHE SAID THOSE WERE NOT AT THIS POINT ANYWAY THE NUMBER ONE REASONS PEOPLE ARE TUNING OUT.

>> WELL, IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO ME HOW THEY'RE DEFINING NEWS AND WHERE AND HOW PEOPLE ARE SCHOOLING AND WHAT THOSE OUTLETS ARE GIVING THEM.

IT'S NOT THAT THERE IS NOT ENOUGH INFORMATION TO FILL 24 HOURS, THERE'S A LOT GOING ON IN THE WORLD BUT THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY WHAT YOU GET FROM CABLE NEWS AND SOCIAL MEDIA.

YOU GET THE SAME SIX STORIES REHASHED AND REANALYZED AD INFINITUM.

SO THAT GETS EXHAUSTING.

THAT'S NOT NEW INFORMATION.

AND SO I THINK MAYBE IF PEOPLE ARE -- WHEN THERE WERE YOU KNOW BACK IN THE DAY YOU COULD GET THIS SORT OF FINITE BUNDLE OF INFORMATION, YOU KNEW IT WAS ON YOUR DOORSTEP IN THE MORNING OR ON YOUR SCREEN 6:30 OR 11.

NOW THERE'S TOO MUCH AND NOT ENOUGH AT THE SAME TIME.

>> I THINK THAT'S A REALLY GOOD POINT.

WE'RE KIND OF BARRAGED BY IT INSTEAD OF READING THE EVENING NEWS AND THE MORNING PAPER, YOU GET IT ON PUSH ALERTS AND APPLE MEDIA, AND ON TWITTER, THERE ARE STUFF THAT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT.

I FEEL LIKE IN A LOT OF WAYS NEWS HAS BEEN WEBBIZED LATELY AND THAT CERTAIN ACTORS HAVE SUCCEEDED IN UNDERMINING THE AUTHORITY OF THE MEDIA.

WE DON'T -- WE KIND OF HAVE SKEWED TOWARDS INFO AT THE SAME TIMETAINMENT ALOT OF TIMES.

OFFERING CONFIRMATION AND NOT A LOT OF NEW INFORMATION.

I THINK PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF NOT SEEING NEWS OR NOT READING NEWS THAT FEELS LIKE IT ACTUALLY INFORMS THEM?

OR CHANGES THEIR WORLD VIEW OR GIVERS THEM THE INFORMATION THEY NEED TO NAVIGATE THE SPACE THEY'RE IN.

>> I HAVE AN EXAMPLE OF THAT BY THE WAY.

I JUST TOOK A LONG DRIVE FROM FLORIDA TO MASSACHUSETTS.

AND I STARTED TO LISTEN TO THE NEWS AT THE BEGINNING AND I WAS HEARING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND I QUICKLY GAVE UP AND I SAID I AM GOING TO LISTEN TO A BOOK ON TAPE, AND I DOWNLOADED JOHN BEHNER'S BOOK AND IT WAS HILARIOUS TO HEAR HIM READ IT.

FOR PEOPLE LIKE US WHO ARE NEWS JUNKIE WHOTSJUNKIE WHO WANT TO BE CONSUMING, I WONDER ABOUT ALL THE STORIES WE'VE HAD ABOUT ASSOCIATE JUSTICE OVER THE LAST YEAR WHY WASN'T THERE ARE MORE COVERAGE OF DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN, WHICH PEOPLE SAY IS THE BIGGEST ANTI ANTI-POVERTY STORY IN GENERATIONS.

I THINK THE MEDIA HAS LARGELY IGNORED IT.

>> GOOD POINTS, ALL.

I'M NOT SURE I EVEN BUY THE PREMISE OF THIS STUDY WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO THE RESEARCHER.

SHE FOUND WHAT SHE FOUND.

BUT I FOUND THAT THE RATINGS OF NEWS OF ALL KINDS DURING THE ELECTION WERE THROUGH THE ROOF.

YOU SEE THAT AT TIMES OF WAR.

YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S HEALTHY THAT PEOPLE AREN'T IN A STATE OF MAIN-LINING NEWS EVERY WAKING MOMENT, YOU KNOW YEAR-ROUND.

THAT'S NO WAY TO LIVE.

SO LOOK, MAYBE IT IS A VERSION OF THE OLD SAYING ABOUT HOW SOMEONE WHO ISN'T A LIBERAL, WHEN THEY ARE 20, IS A JACK ASS AND IF THEY'RE NOT A CONSERVATIVE WHEN THEY'RE 50 THEY'RE A FOOL.

I'M SURE I GARBLED THAT, THE OLD SAYING.

MAYBE THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ABOUT, YOUNGER PERSON, IF YOU ARE MAIN-LINING THE NEWS TIME TO MAYBE MIX UP YOUR LIFESTYLE A LITTLE BIT.

IF YOU ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION WHEN YOU'RE OLDER AND IT'S ABOUT YOUR TAXES, YOUR SCHOOLS, YOUR 401(K), THEN MAYBE YOU NEED TO WISE UP.

>> Rooney: I'M CURIOUS JEREMY, THEY USE THE ARE STORY ABOUT NAVALNY, I'M WONDERING WHAT RELEVANCE MEANS THESE DAYS, WHAT DO YOU SPECULATE?

>> I THINK IT DEPENDS.

I'LL THINK BACK TO WHEN I WAS A STARTING JOURNALIST IN BOSTON, I WAS 20 YEARS OLD AND I WAS A WRITER FOR WBUR AND EVERY COUPLE OF DAYS THEY WOULD MAKE ME WRITE A STORY THAT HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH WHITEY BULGER.

I WAS LIKE, WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH MY LIFE?

HAVE ME WRITE SOMETHING ABOUT THE T, SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY AFFECTS ME ON A DAILY BASIS, THERE ARE THESE STORIES THAT WE GET OBSESSED WITH, THAT DON'T HAVE REFERENCE FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, FOR SOME PEOPLE THEY DO.

RIGHT NOW THERE ARE A NUMBER OF STORIES THAT AFFECT A LOT OF PEOPLE BUT THEY ALSO DON'T FEAJT A LOT OF PORTER PEOPLE.

-- DON'T AFFECT A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE.

>> Rooney: THE SUNDAY MORNING TALK SHOWS THRIVE ON CONTENTION THESE DAYS, SO IT'S NO WONDER THAT REPUBLICANS WHO DENIED THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION RESULTS ARE POPULAR GUESTS.

BUTINTERVIEWERS DON'T ALWAYS REMIND VIEWERS WHO THEY ARE TALKING TO, OR WHAT THEY'VE SAID, GIVING THEM UNDESERVED CREDIBILITY.

>> OUR DUTY IS CLEAR.

>> Rooney: RIGHT BEFORE SHE WAS VOTED OUT OF HER HOUSE GOP LEADERSHIP POSITION THIS WEEK, WYOMING CONGRESSWOMAN LIZ CHENEY HAD THIS TO SAY: >> IGNORING THE LIE EMBOLDENS THE LIAR.

>> Rooney: EXACTLY.

IGNORING THE LIE DOES EMBOLDEN THE LIAR.

SO HOW COME SO MANY TALK SHOWS ARE BOOKING GUESTS WHO ARE ELECTION-DENIERS?

>> DON'T TRY TO CENSOR, CANCEL AND SILENCE ME HERE.

YOU RAISED THE ISSUE, SO YOU'VE GOT TO LISTEN TO THE TRUTH.

>> Rooney: THAT'S MISSOURI SENATOR JOSH HAWLEY TRYING TO GIVE THE "WASHINGTON POST'S" CAT ZAKRZEWSKI A LECTURE ON THE "TRUTH."

RICH, COMING FROM SOMEONE WHO WANTED TO OVERTURN ELECTION RESULTS IN SEVERAL STATES.

HAWLEY AND FLORIDA SENATOR RICK SCOTT, ANOTHER ELECTION-DENIER, ARE POPULAR SUNDAY MORNING GUESTS.

>> THE PRESIDENT GIVES A NICE TALK ABOUT UNITY, BUT THEN HE DOESN'T, YOU KNOW-- THERE'S NO UNITY.

>> Rooney: NO MENTION ANYWHERE IN THAT INTERVIEW WITH CBS'S ANTHONY MASON THAT SCOTT VOTED AGAINST CERTIFYING THE ELECTION RESULTS.

CNN'S JAKE TAPPER IS HAVING NONE OF IT.

>> IF THEY'RE WILLING TO LIE ABOUT JOE BIDEN WANTING TO STEAL YOUR HAMBURGERS, WHAT ELSE ARE THEY WILLING TO LIE ABOUT?

WHY SHOULD I PUT ANY OF THEM ON TV?

>> Rooney: GOOD QUESTION.

OVER ON FOX, CHRIS WALLACE ALLOWED INDIANA REPRESENTATIVE JIM BANKS TO SPOUT OFF ABOUT REPLACING LIZ CHENEY, BUT THEN HELD HIM ACCOUNTABLE.

>> YOU JOINED MORE THAN 100 HOUSE REPUBLICANS SUPPORTING A TEXAS LAWSUIT TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION RESULTS IN OTHER STATES.

>> Rooney: LIKE LIZ CHENEY SAYS, IGNORING THE LIE EMBOLDENS THE LIE.

WELL, JON, AS A SUNDAY MORNING TALK SHOW HOST I'M GOING TO CALL ON YOU FIRST.

I UNDERSTAND BOOKING GUESTS THAT ARE PROVOCATIVE.

THESE PEOPLE HAVE BECOME HOUSEHOLD NAMES BUT TO NOT CALL THEM OUT ON SOME THINGS THEY'VE SAID, BY THE WAY, TO GO TO THE SAME WELL OF WHAT THEY'VE SAID, I AGREE WITH JAKE TAPPER, UNLESS THEY ARE WILLING TO COME TO SOME KIND OF RECKONING AS TO WHAT HAPPENED AFTER JANUARY 6th IF THEY ARE GOING TO BELIEVE THAT INDEED THERE WAS A REAL INSURRECTION, SOME OF THEM DON'T BELIEVE IT WAS, IT WAS JUST TOURISTS VISITING THE WHITE HOUSE, HOW CAN YOU COME UP WITH THAT?

>> IT WAS UP TO THE JOURNALISTS WHO WERE DOING THESE INTERVIEWS TO PROVIDE THE CONTEXT THAT THE VIEWER NEEDS NOW.

ARE WE POORER, IS THE INFORMATION UNIVERSE LESS RICH?

BECAUSE WE KNOW LONGER HEAR THE DISHONEST STYLINGS OF KALEY McENENY, OR ANY ONE OF THE TRUMPERS, YOU SEE THE NONCABLE NETS MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT THEY WERE DOING IN THE EARLIER YEARS.

BUT RICK SCOTT IS ONE OF THE TWO SENATORS FROM FLORIDA, A MAJOR STATE, HEAD OF THE REPUBLICAN SENATORIAL CAMPAIGN COMMITTEE, WHATEVER HE SAYS, DESERVES AIR TIMER IF IT'S FACT CHECKED AND PUSHED BACK ON.

KEVIN McCARTHY IS THE MINORITY LEADER OF THE HOUSE.

HOW DO YOU NOT HAVE HIM ON?

THIS GETS BACK TO OUR OLD ARGUMENT ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT TRUMP'S EVERY COMMENT SHOULD HAVE BEEN NEWSWORTHY.

I ARGUED FOR THE MOST PART IT WAS AND I'M STANDING BY THAT.

>> I THINK WE HAVE TO LISTEN TO EACH OTHER.

I THINK AS JOURNALISTS WE'RE BETTER OFF ERRING ON THE SIDE OF HAVING THE CONVERSATION THAN BANNING PEOPLE FROM THE AIR WAYS.

I THINK CHRIS WALLACE HAS IT EXACTLY RIGHT.

WHICH IS DO YOUR PREPARATION.

BE READY FOR THE INTERVIEW.

BE ABLE TO PUSH BACK.

IF YOU'RE IN A LIVE INTERVIEW, IT'S HARD TO GET EVERY SINGLE LIE THAT GETS UTTERED AND PUSHED BACK AGAINST IT.

WHAT I'VE SAID, I JUST SPOKE TO A TEAM OF JOURNALISTS IN ILLINOIS WHO ARE PUTTING TOGETHER A LOCAL TALK SHOW ABOUT WHETHER THEY SHOULD BAN A CONGRESSWOMAN THERE WHO OBJECTED TO THE ELECTION RESULTS IN THE AIR WAVES.

AND I SAID LOOK, TELL YOUR AUDIENCE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE HER ON.

WE'LL TRY TO CORRECT EVERYTHING THAT IS WRONG THAT IS SAID ON THE AIR.

IF WE DON'T DO IT, FORGIVE US, WE'RE HUMAN BEINGS AND WE'LL COME BACK TOMORROW SAYING WE SHOULD HAVE SAID THIS AND THAT.

OF COURSE THE ELECTION WASN'T RIGGED.

BUT I THINK WE'RE BETTER OFF ERRING ON THE SIDE OF CONVERSATION.

>> I THINK THE BEST THING TO REMEMBER IS THEY ARE NEWS BUT THEY'RE ALSO ENTERTAINMENT.

AND THERE ARE REASONS WHY CERTAIN PEOPLE ARE BOOKED.

PARTLY BECAUSE THEIR POSITION, AS JON POINTED OUT AND THEY HAVE POSITIONS OF POWER, AND PARTLY BECAUSE THEY MAKE GOOD TV.

THERE IS EXPECTATION THAT THEY MAY BE WATCHED BECAUSE THEY MAY CREATE A MOMENT OF CHALLENGE.

GOOD FOR CHRIS WALLACE AS YOU SAID TO BRIR THAT CHALLENGE RIGHT UP TO THE AIR RATHER THAN BEING LIKE JAKE TAPPER AND IGNORING AND PRETENDING THEY DON'T EXIST.

THE FIREWORKS CAN BE GOOD FOR EVERYBODY, RIGHT?

IT'S WIN-WIN, THEY CAN CREATE GOOD TELEVISION FOR THE NETWORK THAT'S DOING IT AND THEY CAN BRING THE ARGUMENT AND THE FACTS UP TO THE FOR.

>> THESE BOOKERS FOR THESE SHOWS, IT IS GOOD TELEVISION, THE PRIME ACTORS IN MOVIES OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN EVEN THOUGH THERE ARE LOTS OF OTHERS AVAILABLE.

BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE PRODUCERS FOR THE JOURNALISTS TO REMEMBER INVITING SOMEONE ON AS A GUEST DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE HANDING THEM A MEGAPHONE, THEY DON'T DESERVE A PLATFORM TO SAY WHATEVER THEY WANT UNCHALLENGED.

I THINK IT'S INCUMBENT UPON THE JOURNALISTS TO SET THE STAGE THERE TO OFFER THE CONTEXT.

IT IS DIFFICULT TO FACT-CHECK IN REALTIME BUT YOU CAN DEFINITELY CHALLENGE YOUR GUEST AND HAVE A DISCUSSION RATHER THAN JUST GIVE THEM FREE REIN TO GIVE A SPEECH.

>> Rooney: I'D STILL LIKE TO SEE DIFFERENT NAMES AND FACES IN THERE.

IF IT'S JOSH HALLY I'M HITTING THAT EXIT BUT TO BE.

ALL RIGHT, WHEN DESCRIBING SOMEONE'S RACE, ETHNICITY, OR SEXUAL ORIENTATION, JOURNALISTS GENERALLY USE THE TERMS THE PERSON PREFERS.

BUT THIS WEEK, BOSTON MAYORAL CANDIDATE ANNISSA ESSAIBI-GEORGE CRIED FOUL OVER HOW THE "BOSTON GLOBE" REPORTED ON HER.

ADAM REILLY HAS MORE.

>> Reporter: AFTER NOTING IN THE HEADLINE THAT BOSTON'S TOP MAYORAL CANDIDATES ALL IDENTIFY AS PEOPLE OF COLOR, THE "GLOBE" SAID THAT, WHEN IT COMES TO ANNISSA ESSAIBI-GEORGE, "SOME RESIDENTS HAVE RAISED QUESTIONS ABOUT HER IDENTITY."

IT QUOTED PODCAST HOST JACQUETTA VAN ZANDT, WHO ASKED ESSABI GEORGE THIS A FEW MONTHS AGO: >> PEOPLE TEND TO IDENTIFY AS A PERSON OF COLOR WHEN IT'S CONVENIENT.

HOW DO YOU IDENTIFY, AND HOW DO YOU SHOW UP IN THE WORLD?

>> AFTER THE GLOBE SITED THAT ONE POINT, ESSAIBI-GEORGE PUSHED BACK HARD AT THE "GLOBE'S" FRAMING, SAYING SHE'S A "PROUD FIRST-GENERATION ARAB-POLISH AMERICAN."

SHE TELLS "BEAT THE PRESS" THAT WHILE THE "GLOBE" TREATED THE OTHER CANDIDATES' BACKGROUNDS WITH SENSITIVITY, SHE FEELS HERS GOT DISMISSED.

>> THEY WRITE THIS BEAUTIFUL REFLECTION ON ALL OF THE CANDIDATES.

THEY GET TO MY PARAGRAPH, AND IT'S SORT OF LIKE, HER EXPERIENCES DON'T MATTER.

IT'S JUST FRUSTRATING, AND HURTFUL, AND AGGRAVATING, WHEN SOME QUESTION MY IDENTITY.

>> Reporter: ESSAIBI-GEORGE ALSO SAYS, IN HER INTERVIEW WITH "GLOBE" REPORTER MEGHAN IRONS, SHE FELT LIKE SHE WAS BEING GRILLED.

>> IT WAS MUCH MORE ABOUT "HOW LONG HAVE YOU IDENTIFIED AS AN ARAB, HOW LONG HAVE YOU IDENTIFIED AS A PERSON OF COLOR?"

>> Reporter: FOR THE RECORD, ESSAIBI GEORGE'S FATHER EMIGRATED FROM TUNISIA, AND THOUGHT HIS ROOTS WOULD LIMIT HIS DAUGHTER'S POLITICAL AMBITIONS.

>> HE SAID "AN ARAB GIRL WITH AN ARAB NAME IN THIS CITY, YOU'LL NEVER GET ELECTED TO ANYTHING."

IN SOME WAYS, I WANT TO PROVE MY DAD WRONG, THAT BOSTON HAS CHANGED.

>> Reporter: IRONS DECLINED A REQUEST FOR AN INTERVIEW, SAYING SHE'LL LET THE STORY SPEAK FOR ITSELF.

ONE POINT IT MAKES, LOUDLY AND CLEARLY: FOR MEDIA COVERING BOSTON'S MAYORAL CONTEST RACE AND ETHNICITY ARE A HUGE-- AND POTENTIALLY THORNY-- PART OF THE STORY.

>> Rooney: WELL, LYLAH, YOU WORK AT THE GLOBE, WE'VE ALREADY SAID THAT.

BRINGING SIX PEOPLE MAYBE MORE EVENTUALLY, WHO A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH AND BRINGING THEM THIS FRONT PAGE NEWS AS IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN.

AND SORT OF THE NUANCES OF EACH OF THESE INDIVIDUALS THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HEAR A LOT MORE.

WHEN THE DEBATES COME, IT WILL BE PARSED OUT.

I KNOW YOU WORKED A LITTLE ON THIS STORY BUT I'M WONDERING HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT ESSAIBI-GEORGE'S CRITICISM IN PARTICULAR THAT SHE WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO WAS QUESTIONED ABOUT HER CULTURAL IDENTITY?

>> WELL, FIRST I'M THE USUALLY DISCLOSURE, TIME GLOBE'S RHODE ISLAND EDITOR.

WITH WHILE I WAS FAMILIAR WITH THE STORY I DID NOT WORK ON IT IN TERMS OF EDITING OR WRITING THE STORY.

I WASN'T INVOLVED IN ANY OF THAT.

THAT SAID, I THINK SAYING THE GLOBE WAS QUESTIONING HER ETHNICITY IS A MISCHARACTERIZATION OF THE STORY.

AS A PERSON OF COLOR YOU'RE QUESTIONED ALL THE TIME ABOUT YOUR STATUS AS A PERSON OF COLOR.

YOUR QUESTION BY OTHER PEOPLE OF COLOR ABOUT WHETHER YOU'RE OF COLOR ENOUGH.

YOU'RE YOU QUESTIONED BY PEOPLE NOT OF COLOR WHETHER YOU'RE REFERRING TO ETHNICITY JUST TO BE CONVENIENT.

I GET THAT QUESTION OF COLOR, AND INSULTING.

THIS PIECE BROUGHT UP A CONCERN, IT WAS A PIECE ABOUT HOW ALL THE TOP CANDIDATES IDENTIFY AS PEOPLE OF COLOR AND IT'S ABOUT RACE.

SO IT BROUGHT UP A QUESTION THAT PEOPLE HAVE ASKED.

AND IT PROVIDED A QUOTE FROM SOMEONE ASKING THAT QUESTION.

AND THEN IT GAVE SEVERAL PARAGRAPHS IN WHICH SHE WAS ABLE TO EXPLAIN HER POSITION AND SAY HOW SHE IDENTIFIES.

I MEAN HER FATHER'S FROM TUNISIA.

THAT'S IN AFRICA.

SHE COULD HAVE SAID SHE WAS AFRICAN AMERICAN.

NO ONE COULD QUESTION THAT EITHER.

THAT IS NOT HOW SHE IDENTIFIES.

THE GLOBE HAS CONSISTENTLY IDENTIFIED HER AS SHE PREFERS TO BE IDENTIFIED.

I THINK ABOUT SAYING THIS IS THE GLOBE HOLDER HER TO SOME BAR THAT SHE'S UNABLE TO MEET OR THAT SHE'S BEING PREVENTED FROM MEETING I JUST DON'T THINK THAT'S ACCURATE.

>> THIS IS SUCH A TRICKY TOPIC.

AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S BECOME IN THE PAST WHAT, FIVE YEARS, TEN YEARS, EVEN MORE PROM INCIDENTS IN POLITICS.

AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE REALLY INTERESTING AND CHALLENGING FOR ALL MEDIA OUTLETS TO NAVIGATE THIS TERRAIN.

I THINK THE GLOBE IS JUST ONE OF MANY THAT IS GOODS TO HAVE TO GRAPPLE WITH THIS.

YOU KNOW THE STORY ITSELF, THE FACT THAT BOSTON IS NOW MOST DEFINITIVELY NOT GOING TO BE LED BY A WHITE MAN IS NEWSWORTHY AND INTERESTING.

IT REALLY SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE CHANGES IN THIS CITY.

AND SO THE STORY ITSELF IS QUITE LEGITIMATE.

IT SOUNDS LIKE AND I'VE SEEN OTHER INTERVIEWS WITH COUNCILWOMAN ESSAIBI-GEORGE AND HER PERCEPTION WAS THAT THE IDEA THAT SHE WAS -- THAT HER BACKGROUND BECAUSE SHE WAS NOT BLACK OR LATINO SOMEHOW WAS DISQUALIFYING OR WAS PERCEIVED IN BEING DISQUALIFYING IN ENTERING A RACE IN A YEAR WHEN PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR INCREASED REPRESENTATION, SHE FELT THAT PERSONALLY.

IT'S HARD TO ARGUE WITH ANYONE'S KIND OF, YOU KNOW, PERSONAL APPROACH TO THESE TOPICS.

SO ALL I CAN SAY IS, GOOD LUCK TO EVERY NEWS ORGANIZATION TRYING TO NAVIGATE THIS TERRAIN.

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, JACKPOT FOR COUNSELOR ESSAIBI-GEORGE.

AT AN ARE EARLY STAGE OF THE RACE WHERE OUTSIDE OF ACTING MAYOR KIM JANEY THEY ARE ALL SORT OF SCRAMBLING TO GET TV TIME AND GET SOME VISIBILITY SHE SCORED BIG HERE AND HAS AN OPPORTUNITY ON ONE OF THE CITY'S PREMIER OUTLETS TO TALK ABOUT HER BACKGROUND AND TO TAKE A -- TO THROW A SHARP ELBOW AT THE GLOBE WHICH IS A POPULAR PASTIME IN MANY BAR ROOMS AROUND THE CITY OF BOSTON AND OTHER QUARTERS.

I DON'T KNOW MEGHAN IRONS, SHE SEEMS LIKE A PRETTY GOOD REPORTER TO ME, I WAS NOT SOMEHOW STRUCK BY THAT ARLG IN A NEGATIVE WAY.

I THINK THE BROAD IRPOINT HERE IS WHILE WHO THESE CANDIDATES ARE AND RACE IS CERTAINLY OUT THERE AS AN ISSUE.

IN THE END MY EXPERIENCE IN MY 150 YEARS OF COVERAGE LOAM POLITICS IS THAT BOSTON VOTERS DON'T NECESSARILY VOTE ALONG IDENTITY LINES.

JUST AS TITO JACKSON HOW IT WENT IN THE BLACK WARDS AND PRECINCTS AGAINST MARTY WALSH SOMETIMES BACK.

>> TOTALLY AGREE WITH THAT.

AND WOULD I SAY THAT THE MORE IMPORTANT THING IS GOING TO BE WHAT THESE CANDIDATES ARE GOING TO OFFER PEOPLE OF COLOR IN TERMS OF THEIR POLICIES PREARN WHAT THEIR EXACTLY BACKGROUND IS.

IT REMINDERS ME DURING THE PRESIDENTIAL RUN, THAT MANY PEOPLE OF LGBTQ FELT THAT PETE BUTTIGIEG WAS NOT GAY ENOUGH.

I WILL SAY ONE THING ON THE MEDIA SIDE OF THINGS, DON'T NAME ONE PERSON UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING TO NAME MORE THAN ONE OF THEM.

>> Rooney: I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU, THAT PHRASE DID STRIKE ME AS A LITTLE BIT, LITTLE VAGUE, SOME PEOPLE SAY.

SHE DID QUOTE THE ONE PODCASTER.

>> I THINK THE NEWS HOLE IN PRINT IS ONLY SO BIG.

THAT'S ONE ASPECT OF IT BUT LIKE I SAID I WASN'T INVOLVED IN THE EDITING OR WRITING OF IT.

I WILL SAY THOUGH IF YOU DON'T FIT NEATLY INTO SOMEONE ELSE'S PRECONCEIVED NOTION OF BLACK, WHITE, HISPANIC OR ASIAN-AMERICAN, PEOPLE TEND TO WONDER AND QUESTION AND THAT CAN BE REALLY FRUSTRATING.

>> Rooney: I AGREEMENT WITH THAT PLELTS.

ALL RIGHT TIME NOW WITH OUR RANTS AND RAVES AND I'M GOING TO START WITH YOU JON.

>> OKAY SO I HAVE A RANT FOR A VERY, VERY DIM BULB REPUBLICAN MICHIGAN STATE REPRESENTATIVE NAMED MATT MADDOC, HAS QUITE A TRACK RECORD OF SERIAL LYING, CLAIMING THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN, THE ININSURRECTION OF THE CAPITAL WAS FALSE.

HE'S FILED SOMETHING CALLED THE FACT CHECKER REGISTRATION ACT.

A BILL THAT REQUIRES FACT ECONOMICKERS TO REGISTER WITH THE STATE, TAKE OUT A MILLION DOLLAR INSURANCE POLICY, WHILE ALLOWING ANYONE TO SUE THE FACT-CHECKER OVER, QUOTE, WRONGFUL CONDUCTS WHATEVER THAT IS.

BUT HERE'S THE PUNCH LINE EMILY.

HERE'S A QUOTE FROM REPRESENTATIVE MADDOCK.

THIS ISN'T ABOUT JOURNALISM OR FREE SPEECH.

IT IS ABOUT THE FACT CHECKERS WHO HAVE BEEN INJECTED INTO OUR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT TO BE WRONG, END QUOTE.

>> Rooney: IS THIS GOING TO PASS?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

BUT I DON'T SEE THAT LANGUAGE IN THE FIRST AMENDMENT.

YOU CERTAINLY HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE WRONG.

BECAUSE IF IT BECOMES AGAINST THE LAW THERE ISN'T ENOUGH PRISON SPACE IN THE UNIVERSE TO HOLD ALL THE GUILTY.

>> Rooney: AGREED.

JOANNA.

>> I HAVE A RAVE, HER APPOINTMENT IS INTERESTING FOR A LOT OF REASONS.

FIRST OF ALL IT WAS A SURPRISE.

THERE WERE SEVERAL INTERNAL CANDIDATES AND SHE WAS APPARENTLY EVEN SURPRISED TO PEOPLE WITHIN THE "WASHINGTON POST."

SHE COMES FROM THE ASSOCIATED PRESS WHERE SHE'S CAN EXECUTIVE EDITOR.

SHE MAKE A REALLY GOOD POINTS WHAT THEY DO AND THE BREADTH OF WHAT THEY'VE BEEN ABLE TO DO IS FOR BEYOND THE SORT OF TRADITIONAL CHURN OUT THE STORIES.

THEY DO AMAZING VISUAL JOURNALISM AND COMPLEX LONG FORM JOURNALISM.

SHE'S A NEWS WOMAN PATTERN AT THE AP WAS A REAL ROLE MODEL FOR WOMEN AND MOTHERS IN THE NEWSROOM.

SHE INHERITS A NEWSROOM WITH DEEP POCKETS, A VERY WEALTHY BACKER, A LOT OF OPPORTUNITY AND AUDIENCE, SOME INTERNAL CONFLICT OVER DIVERSITY IN THE NEWSROOM AND OVER SOCIAL MEDIA, SO IT'S REALLY GOING TO BE INTEREST BEING TO SEE HOW SHE DOES AND I WISH HER A LOT OF PLUCK.

>> Rooney: AND VERY BIG SHOES TO FILL, MARTY BARRON WAS THE EDITOR OF THE GLOBE AND POPULAR FOR SOME REASONS, HE GOT OUT OF THERE IN JUST IN TIME AND BECAME A BIG STAR.

ALL RIGHT LYLAH.

>> RAVE FOR JOURNALISM STUDENTS WHO COLLABORATED WITH URANIUM STUDENTS ON UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND ON THIS REALLY GREAT INVESTIGATIVE REPORT ON HOW MASSACHUSETTS BOARDS OF HEALTH WERE OVERWHELMED, THEY CALL IT ASLEEP AT THE SWITCH.

THE RESULT WAS WORKERS WEREN'T PROTECTED AND LESS ACCOUNTABILITY FOR BUSINESSES.

IT'S AN IMMENSELY IMPORTANT STORY.

IT'S JUST BEEN PUBLISHED BY THE ASSOCIATED PRESS SO IT'S PRETTIFUL EVERYWHERE.

IT'S DEFINITELY WORTH YOUR READ AND TO CONSIDER THE LEVEL OF PROTECTIONS WORKERS SHOULD BE ABLE TO EXPECT AND WHO IS SUPPOSED TO ENFORCE THEM.

>> Rooney: I'LL TAKE A LOOK.

JEREMY.

>> I HAVE A RAVE FOR THE THRIVING STARTUP SCENE IN PROVINCETOWN MASSACHUSETTS ON THE CAPE.

THE PROVINCETOWN INDEPENDENT, THEY'VE ALREADY GOT ALMOST 3500 SUBSCRIBERS, TALKING ABOUT IMPORTANT ISSUES LIKE AFFORDABLE HOUSING BUT ALSO THINGS LIKE BIRD SIGHTINGS.

THEN THERE'S A NEW STARTUP, TALK SHOW CALLED GOOD MORNING OR WAIT SORRY, CALLED WAKE UP IN PROVINCETOWN THAT IS PUT OUT BY A COUPLE OF GUYS IN THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY.

THEY HAVE CELEBRITY GUESTS ON, EVERY WEEK THEY DO IT LIVE ON FRIDAY FROM THE PROVINCETOWN BREWING COMPANY.

THEY ARE TRYING TO APPEAL TO A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE COME DOWN TO THIS PART OF MCHES MASSACHUSETTS PERMANENTLY BECAUSE OF THE PANDEMIC.

>> Rooney: FINALLY TONIGHT I HAVE A RAVE FOR THE BOSTON GLOB AND ITS COVERAGE WITH WHAT'S BEEN GOING ON WITH THE MASSACHUSETTS STATE POLICE.

THEY HAVE BEEN EXCELLENT, UNRELENTING FOR SEVERAL YEARS NOW.

WE WOULD NEVER KNOW ABOUT THE OVERTIMER SCAMS, ABOUT ALL THE STUFF THAT'S JUST BEEN -- THAT WENT OUT ON TROOP E AND ALL THAT AT LOGAN AIRPORT.

SO I CAN TELL YOU FOR ONE I'VE REALLY APPRECIATED IT.

AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO LEAD TO MEANINGFUL CHANGE INSIDE THE RANKS.

I'M SURE IT'S BEEN PAINFUL FOR SOME OF THE RANK AND TIME THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS BUT ENOUGH OF THEM ARE INVOLVED.

THANKS TO THE BOSTON GLOBE WE KNOW A LOT MORE ABOUT IT THAN WE EVER WOULD HAVE KNOWN.

WE TALK ABOUT POLICE REFORM, MAYBE THIS IS GOING TO BE THE INSTIGATION AT LEAST FOR THAT ON THE STATE POLICE LEVEL AT ANY RATE AND KUDOS TO THE BOSTON "GLOBE" FOR KEEPING IT IN OUR EYE SIGHTS.

THAT IS NOW IT FOR OUR SHOW.

TELL US WHAT YOU THINK.

EMAIL US, TWEET US, SEND US A COMMENT.

I'M EMILY ROONEY.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

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