PARIS: AMERICA HAS A MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS.

SINCE COVID-19 WE HAVE SEEN RISING RATES OF ANXIETY, DEPRESSION, SUBSTANCE USE AND SUICIDE.

JUDGING BY OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM WE ARE FAR FROM HANDLING THE CRISIS WITH CARE.

EVERY YEAR ONE POINT 5 MILLION AMERICANS ARE INVOLUNTARILY COMMITTED TO PSYCHIATRIC FACILITIES, PEOPLE WHO LOSE THE RIGHT TO REFUSE MEDICATION, TO LEAVE, TO MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT THEIR OWN BRAINS.

BEFORE YOU SAY, AREN’T THEY DANGEROUS?

PEOPLE WITH SERIOUS MENTAL ILLNESSES ARE 10 TIMES MORE LIKELY TO BE VICTIMS OF VIOLENCE THAN THE ONES COMMITTING IT.

THE LACK OF CARE FOR PEOPLE WITH MENTAL ILLNESSES HAS TIES TO, YOU GUESSED IT, SLAVERY.

IN THE 1850’S THE U.S.

CENSUS CLAIMED FREE BLACK PEOPLE WENT INSANE AT RATES 11 TIMES HIGHER THAN ENSLAVED PEOPLE.

THE CONCLUSION?

FREEDOM WAS DRIVING BLACK FOLKS CRAZY.

ESSENTIALLY, SLAVERY WAS THERAPEUTIC.

WE HAVE HEARD THAT BEFORE.

FAST-FORWARD TO THE 1960’S, BLACK MEN GOT DIAGNOSED WITH SCHIZOPHRENIA AT WILDLY HIGHER RATES THAN WHITE MEN.

TWO WHITE PSYCHIATRIST CAME UP WITH THE TERM PROTEST PSYCHOSIS TO CHARACTERIZE BLACK MEN IN THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT.

ONE SYMPTOM WAS HOSTILITY TOWARD AUTHORITY.

MAYBE THEY SHOULD HAVE CONSIDERED RACISM AS A MENTAL ILLNESS INSTEAD.

TODAY BLACK AMERICANS ARE STILL DIAGNOSED WITH SCHIZOPHRENIA AT THREE TO FOUR TIMES THE RATE OF WHITE AMERICANS EVEN WITH IDENTICAL SYMPTOMS.

MEANWHILE WHITE PATIENTS GET DIAGNOSES LIKE ANXIETY AND DEPRESSION, MORE LIKELY TO LEND THEM IN THERAPY THAN A PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL.

THOSE WHO ARE COMMITTED ARE OFTEN DONE SO AGAINST THEIR WILL.

FROM THERE THEY CAN QUICKLY LOSE POWER OVER DECISIONS ABOUT THEIR CARE.

IN RECENT YEARS WE HAVE SEEN SOME IMPROVEMENTS SUCH AS CITIES SENDING SOCIAL WORKERS, CLINICIANS OR PARAMEDICS INSTEAD OF POLICE TO RESPOND TO NONVIOLENCE MENTAL HEALTH CALLS.

THERE IS ALSO GREATER EMPHASIS ON ASSISTED OUTPATIENT TREATMENT, A COURT ORDERED COMMUNITY FORM OF CARE.

THE QUESTION IS WHETHER THESE CHANGES WILL HAPPEN FAST ENOUGH TO ADDRESS THE MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS ON HAND.

WE KNOW THE PROBLEM.

NOW LET’S GET TO THE ROOT OF IT.

I’M PARIS ALSTON AND THIS IS "ROOTED."

RIGHT NOW ON "ROOTED," WE ARE ASKING WHO GETS TO DECIDE WHEN A PERSON WITH MENTAL HEALTH CHALLENGES IS NO LONGER ABLE TO MAKE DECISIONS FOR THEMSELVES EVERY TIME PARIS ALSTON AND JOINED BY AMY GRIFFIN OF LIFE AND LEGACY COUNSELORS, A MARRIAGE AND FAMILY COUNSELOR AND A DOCTOR FROM FATHER’S UPLIFT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US AND THE CONVERSATION.

PARIS: WE FIRST REACHED OUT TO EACH OF YOU BECAUSE OF THE RECENT INTERVIEW WITH A MAN AND HIS WIFE ON THE BREAKFAST CLUB.

I’M CURIOUS FROM YOU, ROB, WHAT WAS YOUR INITIAL REACTION TO THAT?

ROB: MY FLAGS IMMEDIATELY STARTED TO GO OFF FOR A COUPLE DIFFERENT REASONS.

I COMMEND HIM, A PERSON OF HIS STATURE, SHARING HIS BATTLE WITH MENTAL HEALTH.

IF YOU’RE FAMILIAR WITH HIS MUSIC, SOME THINGS HE SAID WERE PERTINENT TO THE LIFESTYLE HE LEADS OR LEAD AND HOW HE GOT TO WHERE HE IS SO I COMMEND HIM FOR THAT.

SOME THINGS I THOUGHT WERE CONCERNING WAS, IN THE BEGINNING OF THE CONVERSATION WITH HIS WIFE SOME OF THE TERMINOLOGY SHE SAID, I COULD FIX HIM.

IT WAS BEFORE THEY WERE MARRIED.

THAT IN ITSELF I THOUGHT WAS ALARMING.

ONE, BECAUSE YOU CAN’T FIX HIM.

WE CAN JUST FIX PEOPLE.

TWO, THE IDEA OF, THESE WERE HIS SYMPTOMS.

IF I RESPONDED TO HIM LIKE THIS, THEN HE WOULD BE OK AND HOW HE WAS HANDLING HIS EPISODES.

I THINK THAT OUT THE GATE WAS THE FLAGS FOR ME.

PARIS: DR.

DANIELS, WHAT IS HAPPENING FOR A FAMILY MEMBER IN THE SITUATION AND THE PERSON EXPERIENCING THE CRISIS?

DR.

DANIELS: WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT HIM HE WAS DIAGNOSED WITH BIPOLAR DISORDER, A MOOD DISORDER AND PARANOIA, SCHIZOPHRENIA IN 2013 SO YOU WILL HAVE INTRUSIVE THOUGHTS, PARANOIA ON BOTH ENDS, WHICH CAN BE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS.

HE WAS EXPERIENCING THOSE THINGS.

PERHAPS HE MENTIONED SOME OF THOSE.

HIS JOURNEY, HE WAS DOING A LOT OF THINGS IN A MANIC WAY.

HIS PARTNER NOTICING THOSE THINGS WHICH I CAN GIVE HER CREDIT FOR NOTICING THE SYMPTOMS TO MAKING SURE HE GETS THE ASSISTANCE.

ONE THING THAT GIVES ME CONCERN, SHE WILL TELL YOU, I’M THE REAL THERAPIST, SHE SAID IT IN THE INTERVIEW, HE DOES NOT NEED A THERAPIST, I’M THE REAL PARTNER YOU CAN’T BE THERE THERAPIST, YOU NEED CLEAR BOUNDARIES.

ONE THINGS FAMILY MEMBERS NEED TO KNOW WHEN THEY ARE INVOLVED IN FAMILY MEMBERS EXPERIENCING MOOD DISORDER AS WELL AS SCHIZOPHRENIA CONCURRENTLY, YOU HAVE TO HAVE CLEAR BOUNDARIES AND OTHERS INVOLVED.

UNDERSTAND YOU CANNOT DO EVERYTHING ABOUT YOURSELF.

WHICH PERSONALLY GOING TO BE?

IN RELATIONSHIP WITH THE PARTNER OR THE ONE ENFORCING RULES, REGULATIONS AND ACCOUNTABILITY?

OR JUST A SUPPORTER IN THE PROCESS?

WHAT WE ARE NOTICING WHERE HE IS TRYING TO BE EVERYTHING, WE SEE WHAT SHE IS EXPERIENCING SIMILAR TO WHAT HAPPENED WITH BOSTON TRYING TO BRING MENTAL HEALTH FIRST, THIS TECHNIQUE TO THE CITY.

NEW YORK ADOPTED THAT POLICY, BUT WHEN BOSTON TRIED, ONE OF THE DOWNSIDES IS, YOU TRAIN PEOPLE BUT THE SYMPTOMS OF MENTAL-HEALTH, AND THEN THEY THINK THERE THERAPIST WITHOUT TRAINING.

SHE USED A THERAPIST.

PARIS: I THINK LIVING IN THE DIGITAL AGE, SOCIAL MEDIA AGE, A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE THERAPIST WHO DO NOT HAVE THE QUALIFICATIONS.

AMY, HOW DOES A SITUATION LIKE THIS GO FOR MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS, SAY TO A CONSERVATORSHIP OR GUARDIANSHIP?

AMY: IF YOU CANNOT MANAGE YOUR AFFAIRS, IF YOU DON’T HAVE THE WHEREWITHAL EITHER PHYSICALLY, EMOTIONALLY, PSYCHOLOGICALLY, CAPACITY TO MANAGE YOUR AFFAIRS, THEN SOMEONE ELSE IS GIVEN THE AUTHORITY TO DO THAT.

IDEALLY IT IS SOMEONE WHO KNOWS -- WHO YOU KNOW OR TRUST.

IF THAT PERSON IS NOT ABLE TO AND YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO RELINQUISH THAT AUTHORITY THAT IS WHEN THE COURT GETS INVOLVED.

AND SOMETIMES WITH MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES WE DON’T UNDERSTAND OR APPRECIATE THE LEVEL OF OUR ILLNESS SO WE THINK WE HAVE THE CAPACITY TO DO ALL THINGS.

UNFORTUNATELY WHEN WE DON’T THAT IS WHEN THE COURT NEEDS TO STEP IN AND TAKE THAT AWAY AND THAT IS WHAT A CONSERVATOR -- WHEN A CONSERVATOR IS APPOINTED.

PARIS: IN 2011 WHEN GUCCI MANE ENTERED GUILTY FOR A PLEA OF INCOMPETENCE HE WAS FACING THEN.

THE JUDGE ORDERED HIM TO BE COMMITTED TO A MENTAL HEALTH TREATMENT FACILITY AND I UNDERSTAND THIS IS COMMONPLACE BUT I’M CURIOUS HOW OFTEN SOMEONE MIGHT BE TURNING TO THAT PLEA TO GET A LESSER SENTENCE AND DOES THAT LEAD TO HIGHER RATES OF INVOLUNTARY COMMITMENT?

AIMEE: PEOPLE OFTEN -- IT IS NOT A FIRST CHOICE BECAUSE YOU RELINQUISH CONTROL.

THEREFORE ABLE TO RESUME AND MAINTAIN AUTHORITY TO ACT ON YOUR OWN BEHALF.

PEOPLE ARE NOT QUICK TO DO THAT.

WE EVEN HAVE PERMISSION TO MAKE BAD DECISIONS.

WE ALL KNOW PEOPLE WHO MAKE BAD DECISIONS.

HOWEVER WHEN YOU ARE A RISK TO YOURSELF OR OTHERS IS WHEN IT IS INVOLVED.

-- THE COURT INVOLVES.

PARIS: IS THIS DISPROPORTIONATE TO BLACK MEN?

DOES IT HAVE THAT HAPPEN AT A DISPROPORTIONATE RATE?

WHETHER SOMETHING COMING OFF OF A CRIMINAL ACT OR IN GENERAL BECAUSE OF WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THE HIGHER RATES OF DIAGNOSIS FOR SEVERE MENTAL HEALTH ILLNESSES FOR BLACK MEN?

ROB: ONE OF THE THINGS HE TALKED ABOUT, AND MIGHT HAVE BEEN HIM, TALKING ABOUT BLACK MEN AS IT RELATES TO MENTAL HEALTH BY AND LARGE.

HISTORICALLY FOR AFRICAN-AMERICANS AS A WHOLE, OUR INTRODUCTION TO THE MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES SUPPORT, WE ARE NOT THE FIRST TO BE SUPPORTED.

THERE IS ALREADY A DISCONNECT AND WHAT SUPPORTS MIGHT BE AVAILABLE AND ARE HASN’T AND SEE 2 -- HESITANCY TO CONSIDER IT.

SYSTEMICALLY THERE IS A DISCONNECT BUT MEN COMING OUT TO DEAL WITH THESE THINGS I THINK IT HAS INCREASED A LITTLE.

WE STILL HAVE A WAYS TO GO IN TERMS OF RESHAPING OR BECOMING MORE PART OF THE CULTURE.

THERE HAS BEEN PROGRESS.

BY AND LARGE WE HAVE A WAYS TO GO.

WHAT I DO THINK WAS VISIBLE WAS THE LACK OF EDUCATION AROUND HOW DO I GET THE NECESSARY SUPPORT I NEED SPECIFICALLY TO ME?

WHEN IT COMES TO TRYING TO GET LESSER PENALTIES AND PUNISHMENTS, THE FLIPSIDE OF THAT IS, AS MY SISTER SAID, WHEN YOU NOW CANNOT ADVOCATE FOR YOURSELF, YOU MAY NOT HAVE THE DECISION AND WHAT TYPE OF MEDICATIONS YOU ARE GIVEN.

YOU HAVE TO TAKE THESE THINGS.

SO THERE IS A RISK, I MIGHT START TAKING SOMETHING THAT I THOUGHT I WAS JUST GOING TO GET SOME LESSER RESPONSE OR LESSER TIME BUT NOW THERE IS A WHOLE NEW LEVEL OF DEPENDENCY THAT MIGHT BE PART OF WHERE I’M AT.

IN VARIES, BUT I DON’T THINK FOLKS BY AND LARGE ARE THINKING, I NEED TO GO THIS ROUTE BECAUSE OF WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN TO ME AS FAR AS THE CRIMINAL SYSTEM GOES.

I THINK THEY ARE AWARE THEY MIGHT BE -- THERE MIGHT BE A RISK.

PARIS: DR.

DANIELS HOW CAN PEOPLE MAINTAIN AUTONOMY IN THIS SITUATION?

DR.

DANIELS: FIRST IT IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE PEOPLE AROUND YOU THAT YOU TRUST.

WHEN EXPERIENCING A MENTAL HEALTH EPISODE YOU CAN LOSE SIGHT OF YOUR REALITY.

YOU CAN ALSO BE IN A VULNERABLE POSITION WHERE IT IS DIFFICULT TO NAVIGATE THINGS OF YOUR OWN.

IF YOU DON’T HAVE ANYONE AROUND YOU YOU TRUST, YOU CAN GET TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF.

SECONDLY YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE YOU’RE UNDERSTANDING WHAT IT IS YOU ARE EXPERIENCING, THAT YOU FIND THE NECESSARY SUPPORTS IN PLACE, THE ASSISTANCE YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE YOU ARE FULLY AWARE OF WHAT IS GOING ON.

THIRD, IT IS IMPORTANT TO ACCEPT THE SITUATION AND WHAT IS OCCURRING.

OFTEN INDIVIDUALS IN THIS POSITION HAVE DISTRUST IN THE SYSTEM, RIGHTFULLY SO, BUT THERE ARE THINGS THAT CAN BE OF USE TO YOU IF YOU ALLOW YOURSELF TO TRUST THE PROCESS AND UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOING ON AROUND YOU.

LAST BUT NOT LEAST, MAKE SURE IN THIS CASE OF GUCCI MANE, HE NEEDS MEDICATION.

ANTIDEPRESSANTS, MOOD STABILIZERS, ANTIPSYCHOTICS.

HAVE TO HAVE THE RIGHT CARE TEAM AROUND HIM TO MAKE SURE HE IS SUPPORTED.

IF YOU ARE A FAMILY MEMBER NAVIGATING THE SITUATION, YOU HAVE TO KNOW YOU’RE NOT ALONE.

THERE ARE RESOURCES TO REACH OUT TO.

YOU CAN CALL 988 FOR FREE AND THEY WILL DIRECT YOU TO THE RESOURCES TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF TO MAKE SURE YOU CAN SUPPORT THE INDIVIDUAL IN YOUR LIFE THE BEST YOU CAN WITHOUT GETTING BURNED OUT.

IT IS A VERY STRESSFUL TIME FOR THE PERSON EXPERIENCING IT AS WELL AS THE FAMILY MEMBER ASSISTING THEM IN THE PROCESS.

PARIS: AIMEE, FOR THE PERSON EXPERIENCING A MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS, WHAT LEGAL ACTIONS, TAKE IN THAT MOMENT TO PROTECT THEMSELVES, ESPECIALLY IF THEY DON’T WANT THINGS TO END UP IN A CONSERVATORSHIP?

AIMEE: ONE THING WE ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO DO, WHEN WE EXPECT WE ARE NOT GOING TO PLAN WHEN IS THE EMERGENCY, IF WE CAN BE THOUGHTFUL ABOUT ANTICIPATING.

AS AN ADULT WE SHOULD HAVE THE PLANS IN PLACE SO WE ARE NOT WAITING UNTIL THE DISTRUST OR EMERGENCY HAPPENS.

WHAT WE KNOW IS TO HAVE THE CONTINGENCY, THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO CAN SPEAK FOR ME WHEN I CAN’T SPEAK FOR MYSELF, AND A BACKUP TO THE BACKUP.

WHAT IS TRUE IS, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE FACT HIS WIFE WANTS TO BE ALL THINGS TO HIM.

IF SHE IS NO LONGER ABLE TO WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE?

CREATING SUPPORT SYSTEMS SO WE DON’T HAVE TO HAVE THE COURT INVOLVED, BUT IF WE HAVE A STRATEGY IN PLACE, WHO DO I WANT TO HAVE?

IT MAY NOT BE THE WIFE BECAUSE THE WIFE IS GOING TO BE THE CARETAKER.

CAN IT BE SOMEONE WHO CAN MANAGE YOUR MONEY?

THERE ARE CHECKS AND BALANCES BECAUSE WE HAVE ALL SEEN SITUATIONS WHERE THE CONSERVATOR GOES IN AND LIVES THEIR BEST LIFE WHILE THE PERSON WHO IS DISABLED IS LOSING EVERYTHING.

HAVING THE CHECKS AND BALANCES IN PLACE TO MAKE SURE YOU ARE NOT TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF.

PARIS: ROB, I WILL POSE THE LAST QUESTION TO YOU.

WHAT NEEDS TO CHANGE IN THE MENTAL HEALTH CARE SYSTEM TO ALLOW PATIENTS MORE AUTONOMY?

ROB: OH MAN.

THERE IS SO MUCH THAT NEEDS TO CHANGE.

IN TERMS OF SUPPORTING PEOPLE WITHIN THE BIPOC COMMUNITY I THINK WHAT NEEDS TO CHANGE IS MORE PEOPLE WITHIN THE COMMUNITY AND CULTURE NEED TO BECOME ADVOCATES AND LEADERS WITHIN THE CULTURE.

I THINK THERE ARE PAINS AND SICKNESSES IN HOW WE RESPOND THAT MIGHT BE TOTALLY DIFFERENT.

WE HAVE TO BECOME THE PEOPLE, THE EXPERTS, THE DOCTORS, THE THERAPISTS IN THE CULTURE OF MENTAL HEALTH AND START TO REALLY LEAD THE CHARGE IN TERMS OF HOW WE SUPPORT OUR PEOPLE.

PARIS: DR.

ROB BADGETT, CHARLES DANIELS AND AIMEE GRIFFIN, THANK YOU.

I’M JOINED BY THE FOUNDER OF DEPRESSED WHILE BLACK.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

PARIS: WHAT IS DEPRESSED WHILE BLACK AND WHY DID YOU STARTED?

>> IT IS A NONPROFIT THAT PROVIDES BLACK AFFIRMING CARE ITEMS TO PSYCHIATRIC PATIENTS.

I STARTED IT BECAUSE WHEN I WAS A PSYCHIATRIC PATIENT I HAD NO ACCESS TO BLACK AFFIRMING CARE PRODUCT SO MY SKIN AND HAIR WERE DETERIORATING IN THE SAME PLACE I SHOULD HAVE BEEN HEALING SO I WANTED TO PROVIDE THE CARE I DID NOT HAVE WHILE I WAS IN HOSPITAL.

PARIS: YOU THINK BY NATURE MENTAL HEALTH HOSPITALS ARE DESIGNED FOR PEOPLE TO HEAL?

>> IT DEPENDS ON THE TYPE OF PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL.

IF IT IS IN COURSEWORK --INCARCERAL, USES THE SAME FURNITURE AND APPROACH OF JAILS AND PRISONS IT IS NOT HEALING AND UNFORTUNATELY THE TWO PAST HOSPITALS I WAS AND IT HAS SOME OF THE SAME FURNITURE JAILS HAVE, THE SAME HEAVY CHAIRS YOU CAN’T MOVE, PROTECTIONS OVER THE TV BECAUSE THEY ASSUME YOU’RE GOING TO BE SO VIOLENT YOU WILL THROW SOMETHING AT THE TV.

THEY HAVE SOME OF THE SAME LOCKDOWNS AND MEASURES, THE SAME LOCKED DOORS THAT KEEP YOU INSIDE, KEEP YOU FROM THE SUN AND THE HEALING POWER OF NATURE.

PEOPLE SOMETIMES SAY YOU HAVE LESS RIGHTS IN A PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL THAN IN A PRISON BECAUSE FOR SOME HOSPITALS, INCLUDING THE ONES I WENT TO, YOU DON’T HAVE ANY OPPORTUNITY TO GO OUTSIDE.

YOU ARE STUCK LIVING UNDER FLUORESCENT LIGHTS 24/7, NO ACCESS TO TOUCH GRASS OR BREATHE OUTSIDE AIR AND PEOPLE SAY FOLKS IN PRISON, AT LEAST THEY GET AN HOUR OUTSIDE SO IT IS REALLY SCARY.

YOU CAN GO INTO A PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL AND NOT KNOW WHEN YOU WILL GO OUT AND A LOT OF TIMES YOUR DISCHARGE DATE IS BASED UPON HOW YOU LOOK SO IF THE PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL DOES NOT PROVIDE THE COMBS YOU NEED FOR YOUR HAIR, DOES NOT PROVIDE THE LOTION OR SHEA BUTTER TO MOISTURIZE YOUR SKIN YOU MAY LOOK REALLY UNWELL WHEN IT IS JUST ABOUT THE FACT YOU DON’T HAVE THE TOOLS YOU NEED TO GROOM YOURSELF SO MY ORGANIZATION, DEPRESSED WHILE BLACK, WE WANT TO GIVE PEOPLE THE TOOLS SO THEY ARE EMPOWERED TO CARE FOR THEMSELVES IN A WAY THAT MATCHES THEIR CULTURAL IDENTITY.

PARIS: I IMAGINE A LOT IS HAPPENING IF SOMEONE IS EXPERIENCING A MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS AND THEY ARE WHETHER VOLUNTARILY OR INVOLUNTARILY BEING COMMITTED TO A MENTAL HEALTH FACILITY, HOW IN THAT MOMENT, ADVOCATE AND SAY I WILL NEED THESE SPECIFIC TYPES OF PRODUCTS?

OR IS THAT SOMETHING THEY SHOULD HAVE A FAMILY MEMBER OR SOMEONE THEY TRUST DO FOR THEM?

IMADÉ: THE CHALLENGES FOR SO MANY PEOPLE INCLUDING SOMETIMES MYSELF, WE BURNT A LOT OF BRIDGES.

THE FRIENDS THAT SUPPORT US IN OUR FIRST HOSPITALIZATION ARE NOT SUPPORTING US IN OUR FIFTH.

[LAUGHTER] JUST BEING REAL.

SOME OF OUR FAMILY MEMBERS, MAY BE SEVERAL STATES OR WEIGHT -- AWAY OR NOT HAVE THE FINANCIAL MEANS TO GET BLACK BEAUTY SUPPLIES SO THAT IS WHY I PROVIDED THESE KITS.

WE DONATE TO HOSPITALS AND THEN THE STAFF DISTRIBUTE THESE KITS TO PATIENTS.

WE ENCOURAGE PATIENTS TO REQUEST OUR BLACK BEAUTY SUPPLY KITS AND ASK NURSING STAFF, DO YOU HAVE BLACK BEAUTY SUPPLIES AND IS IT POSSIBLE TO GET THOSE ITEMS?

BECAUSE HOW CAN A BLACK PERSON COMB THEIR HAIR IF THEY ARE GIVEN LITTLE BABY DOLL COMBS?

PARIS: WHY DO YOU THINK IT IS TAKEN SO LONG FOR THE MENTAL HEALTH CARE SYSTEM TO GET HIP TO THIS?

WHY ARE THEY STILL GIVING OUT THOSE LITTLE PLASTIC BABY DOLL COMBS?

IMADÉ: I THINK, AND THIS IS UNFORTUNATE, I’M NOT CASTING BLAME ON ANY OF THE NURSING STAFF BECAUSE MANY OF THEM ARE WORKING AS HARD AS THEY CAN TO CARE FOR PATIENTS.

I HAVE HEARD FROM NURSING STAFF THAT THEY BUY BLACK BEAUTY SUPPLY ITEMS OUT OF THEIR OWN MONEY, THEIR OWN WALLET, THEIR OWN PURSE, TO CARE FOR PATIENTS.

I ALSO HEARD FROM STAFF THAT SOMETIMES THEY BRAIDED PATIENTS’ HAIR AND TAKE CARE OF THEIR HAIR BECAUSE THEY DON’T HAVE ANY OPPORTUNITIES TO PROVIDE SALON SERVICES IN THE HOSPITAL.

I’M NOT CASTING BLAME ON ANY NURSING STAFF.

HOWEVER, I DO PUT SOME BLAME ON HOSPITAL ADMINISTRATORS THAT PURCHASE PRISON GRADE ITEMS THAT COMMUNICATE TO PATIENTS THAT THEY REALLY DON’T HAVE A LOT OF VALUE.

IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO TELL A PATIENT THEY ARE LOVED AND CARED FOR IF THEY ARE BEING FORCED TO WEAR PAPER SCRUBS EVERY DAY THAT IRRITATE THEIR SKIN.

WE HAVE TO DO A BETTER JOB AS A SOCIETY OF PROVIDING HIGHER-QUALITY CARE ITEMS.

THAT REALLY ALLOW PEOPLE TO FEEL LOVED IN THEIR BODIES.

WE HAVE TO MOVE AWAY FROM A CARCERAL APPROACH TO PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITALS WHERE THEY PURCHASE BULK PRISON GRADE PRODUCTS.

PSYCHIATRIC PATIENTS ARE NOT PRISONERS.

EVEN PRISONERS DESERVE CARE THAT IS AFFIRMING AND ALLOWS THEM TO FEEL LOVED.

WE HAVE TO RAISE THE LEVEL OF CARE IN EVERY ASPECT OF THE HOSPITAL.

MY ORGANIZATION IS RESOURCING HOSPITALS TO DO JUST THAT.

PARIS: WHAT ALTERNATIVES EXIST OR DO YOU THINK THERE COULD BE TO THE TRADITIONAL MENTAL HEALTH INSTITUTIONALIZATION YOU ARE DESCRIBING?

IMADÉ: THEY HAVE PEER SUPPORT RESPITE CENTERS.

THESE CAN LOOK LIKE HOMES WHERE PATIENTS CAN COME AND DROP IN AND THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT TO STAY LONGER THAN THEY WANT.

THEY CAN LEAVE AT ANY TIME AND THEY ARE CARED FOR BY PEOPLE WITH THE SAME MENTAL HEALTH CHALLENGES THEY HAVE, SO THEY ARE NOT FORCED ON ANY MEDICATION THEY DO NOT WANT.

IT IS A PLACE TO RECHARGE AND RELAX LIKE A RETREAT FOR PEOPLE WITH MENTAL HEALTH CHALLENGES.

I HIGHLY SUPPORT THAT BECAUSE IT IS DIFFICULT TO GET CARE WHEN YOU FEEL LIKE YOU ARE IN A PRISON.

PEOPLE REALLY NEED CHOICES, OPPORTUNITIES, TO DECIDE OUR MENTAL HEALTH JOURNEY.

UNFORTUNATELY IN A LOT OF PSYCHIATRIC FACILITIES YOU CANNOT LEAVE THE FACILITY UNTIL YOU GET ON MEDICATION.

BUT THIS IS THE ISSUE.

THE PSYCHIATRIST MAY TALK TO YOU FOR MANY -- MAYBE FIVE MINUTES TOPS.

YOU MAY NOT GET A LOT OF INFORMATION ABOUT THE MEDICATION YOU’RE GETTING.

YOU MAY HAVE TO TALK TO OTHER PATIENTS TO GET INFORMATION ABOUT SIDE EFFECTS AND WITHDRAWALS.

THAT IS WHY I LOVE PEER SUPPORT RESPITE CENTERS.

YOU PUT THE POWER, CHOICE AND AGENCY IN THE HANDS OF THE RESIDENCE OF THE PEER SUPPORT CENTERS.

SOME OF THAT SEES YOU FOR FIVE MINUTES DECIDE YOUR ENTIRE MENTAL HEALTH DESTINY.

I LOVE HAVING CHOICE IN BEING ABLE TO MAKE DECISIONS, SO I ADVOCATE FOR PEER SUPPORT RESPITE CENTERS.

PARIS: LASTLY, WHETHER IT IS POLICY OR ADVOCACY, WHAT SORT OF ACCOUNTABILITY WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE FOR THESE HEALTH CARE ADMINISTRATORS WHO ALLOW THESE SHORTCOMINGS TO CONTINUE?

IMADÉ: I THINK WE REALLY NEED TO INVESTIGATE HOW MUCH MONEY HOSPITALS ARE MAKING VERSUS HOW MUCH THEY ARE SPENDING FOR PSYCHIATRIC PATIENTS BECAUSE I BELIEVE THERE IS A HUGE GAP IN CARE.

YOU MIGHT HAVE SEEN THIS, I DON’T KNOW, BUT IT IS COMMON TO SEE PEOPLE WANDERING THE STREETS IN A HOSPITAL GOWN WITH HOSPITAL BASELESS AND NO SHOES.

THAT BREAKS MY HEART.

HOW CAN A HOSPITAL THAT MAKES MILLIONS OF DOLLARS DUMP PATIENTS ON THE STREETS WITH NO SHOES?

HOW CAN YOU DUMP PATIENTS ON THE STREET AND SAY YOUR PROVIDING CARE?

IF THESE HOSPITALS CAN MAKE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OFF OF BEDS, FILLED BEDS, WHY CAN’T THESE SAME HOSPITALS PROPERLY SUPPLY CARE ITEMS FOR THEIR OWN PATIENTS?

WE HAVE TO DO A BETTER JOB OF ASKING THE RIGHT QUESTIONS BECAUSE NOT ONLY ARE PSYCHIATRIC PATIENTS BEING OPPRESSED, I BELIEVE NURSING STAFF AND THE HELPING PROFESSIONS IN THE HOSPITALS ARE BEING OPPRESSED, TOO, WITH SUPPRESSED WAGES AND BEING FORCED TO WORK DOUBLE-SHIFTS, UP TO 12, 16 HOURS AT A TIME.

NO PROFESSIONAL CAN PROVIDE TOP-QUALITY CARE BEING FORCED TO WORK DOUBLE-SHIFTS BACK TO BACK.

THESE PSYCHIATRIC FACILITIES ARE BASED ON THE SAME CARCERAL APPROACH AT PRISONS.

YOU HAVE TO EARN THE RIGHT FOR BASIC PRIVILEGES.

IF YOU WANT TO STEP OUTSIDE YOU HAVE TO EARN THE RIGHT FOR THAT.

IF YOU WANT TO HAVE ACCESS TO YOUR PHONE TO TALK TO YOUR FAMILY, YOU HAVE TO EARN THE RIGHT TO THAT.

MY ORGANIZATION IS ROOTED IN DISABILITY JUSTICE.

WE WANT TO TAKE CONTROL OVER OUR MENTAL HEALTH DESTINY.

WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE DECISIONS, DECIDE WHAT MEDICATIONS WE USE, DECIDE WHAT TYPE OF TREATMENT WE HAVE.

THAT IS WHAT I WANT TO DO.

BUT I DON’T WANT TO HAVE AN ADVERSARIAL RELATIONSHIP WITH HOSPITALS.

I WANT TO EMPOWER NURSING STAFF WITH THE BLACK AFFIRMING CARE ITEMS THEY NEED SO THEY CAN PROPERLY DE-ESCALATE SITUATIONS.

I WANT TO BE A RESOURCE TO HOSPITALS AND MAKE IT EASIER FOR NURSES TO CARE FOR OUR PATIENTS BY GIVING THEM ITEMS THEY NEED SO THEY ARE GROUNDED IN --AND ROOTED IN THEIR BODIES.

PARIS: THERE IS SO MUCH WE COULD CONTINUE TO DISCUSS BUT WE WILL LEAVE IT THERE.

THAT IS IMADÉ, FOUNDER AND DIRECTOR OF DEPRESSED WHILE BLACK.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

IMADÉ: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

PARIS: A BIG THANKS TO OUR GUESTS, IMADÉ, DR.

ROB BADGETT, CHARLES DANIELS AND AIMEE GRIFFIN.

TALKING ABOUT HOW RACISM INTERSECTS AND HOW IMPORTANT TO PROTECT AUTONOMY, ESPECIALLY FOR BLACK MEN NAVIGATING SYSTEMS NOT BUILT WITH THEM IN MIND.

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