>> BLACK FOLKS SAY AT ALL THE TIME.

WE ARE LOSING RECIPES.

THAT PHRASE GETS THROWN AROUND LIKE A NATIONAL EMERGENCY, AND IT KIND OF IS.

IN BLACK CULTURE, RECIPES ARE NOT JUST INSTRUCTIONS -- THEY ARE ORAL HISTORIES, BIRTHRIGHTS.

SOMETIMES TRAUMA WRAPPED IN ALUMINUM FOIL AND TAKEN WITH YOU LIKE IT TO GO PLATE.

WHEN AUNTIES AND UNCLES DON’T KNOW HOW TO MAKE GRANDMA’S MAC & CHEESE, IT CAN DO MORE THAN LEAVE A BAD TASTE IN YOUR MOUTH -- YOUR MOUTH.

THINK OF MOVIES LIKE SOUL FOOD AND CHRISTMAS.

THE DRAMA WAS NOT ABOUT THE GREENS AND CORNBREAD.

IT WAS ABOUT THE AUNTIES WHO HAS NOT SPOKEN TO HER SISTER SINCE 1998, THE COUSIN ALWAYS SHOWING UP WITH A NEW BUSINESS VENTURE, AND THE UNCLE WHO SWEARS HE INVENTED SWEET POTATO PIE.

RECIPES WHERE THE HEARTBEAT OF THE FAMILY.

THE MOMENT SHE GOT SICK, ALL OF THAT TENSION CAME POURING OUT LIKE POT LIQUOR AFTER SOMEONE KNOCKED THE COLLARDS OFF THE STOVE.

IN ALMOST CHRISTMAS, EVERY DISH WAS THEM SAYING, WE NEED THERAPY BUT WE ARE GOING TO SEASON OUR WAY THROUGH IT, HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE AND ALL.

RECIPES GET PASSED DOWN, BUT SO DO THE ISSUES NO ONE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT.

NOW THAT GEN Z AND MILLENNIALS ARE THE NEW AUNTIES AND UNCLES, WE ARE SEEING A SHIFT.

RESEARCH SHOWS BLACK FAMILIES TODAY ARE MORE DIVERSE IN STRUCTURE AND EVOLVING IN HOW THEY DEFINE AND PARTICIPATE IN FAMILY.

YOUNGER GENERATIONS ARE SETTING BOUNDARIES.

THEY HAVE GONE FROM BIG MAMA TO BIG MAMA, YOUR ATTITUDE.

THEY ARE NOT ACCEPTING GENERATIONAL TRAUMA JUST BECAUSE IT’S BEEN MARINATING LONGER THAN THE RIBS.

TRADITIONS ARE NOT DISAPPEARING, THEY ARE TRANSFORMING.

AND THAT’S A GOOD THING.

BECAUSE PART OF THE BLACK CULINARY TRADITION IS LEARNING HOW TO IMPROVISE.

DURING ENSLAVEMENT, OUR PEOPLE WERE DEPRIVED OF CERTAIN FOODS AND INGREDIENTS, BUT WE STILL FOUND A WAY, DEVELOPING WEST AFRICAN CUISINE INTO STAPLES WELL KNOWN TODAY.

JAMBALAYA, HOT WATER CORNBREAD.

HOLDING ONTO THOSE RECIPES MEANS HOLDING ONTO EACH OTHER.

THAT MIGHT MEAN THINGS GETTING TO A BOILING POINT, BUT JUST LIKE A POT OF CHITLINS HAS TO BE CLEANED AND BOILED LONG ENOUGH TO MAKE THEM TENDER, BREAKING GENERATIONAL CYCLES TAKES TIME AND A LITTLE HOT SAUCE TO SPICE THINGS UP.

AS THE SAYING GOES, IF YOU CAN’T STAND THE HEAT, STAY OUT OF THE KITCHEN.

WE KNOW THE PROBLEM.

NOW LET’S GET TO THE ROOT OF IT.

I AM PARIS ALSTON AND THIS IS "ROOTED."

RIGHT NOW WE ARE DRIVING INTO THE INCREDIBLE STORY BEHIND ONE OF AMERICA’S MOST ICONIC NAMES IN COOKIES.

SARAH AMO’S JOINS US TO TALK ABOUT HER NEW PODCAST, TOUGH COOKIE, THE FAMOUS AMOS STORY.

IT’S A JOURNEY THROUGH RESILIENCE, REINVENTION, AND THE SWEET LEGACY OF THE MAN WHO TURNED CHOCOLATE CHIPS INTO A CULTURAL PHENOMENON.

LET’S GET INTO THIS BAG.

SARAH, THANKS FOR JOINING US TODAY, REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

SARAH: THANKS FOR HAVING ME, I AM EXCITED TO CHAT.

PARIS: WHEN DID YOU KNOW THIS LEGACY OF YOUR FATHER NEEDED TO BE A PODCAST?

SARAH: I WANT TO SAY I HAVE ALWAYS KNOWN, BUT THE REALITY IS I DID NOT THINK ABOUT DOING A PODCAST ABOUT MY DAD AND HIS LEGACY UNTIL HE GOT REALLY SICK.

AS WE GO THROUGH THE BACK HALF OF THE PODCAST, YOU WILL HEAR THE END OF HIS LIFE WAS REALLY COMPLICATED AND THERE WERE A LOT OF STRUGGLES AND A LOT OF THINGS I HAD TO DEAL WITH, OUR FAMILY HAD TO DEAL WITH, THAT HE HAD TO DEAL WITH.

AS THAT ALL BECAME CRAZIER AND CRAZIER, I STARTED TO THINK ABOUT HOW I WANTED TO PROCESS IT AND HOW I WANTED HIS LEGACY TO BE REMEMBERED BY OTHERS.

I THINK ONLY THEN DID I START TO REALLY NOT JUST CONSIDER A PODCAST BUT REALLY FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER CONSIDER TALKING ABOUT MY FATHER, HIS LIFE, OUR RELATIONSHIP, WHAT IT ALL MEANT TO ME IN A PUBLIC WAY.

PARIS: WHAT WERE SOME OF THE OBSTACLES, PERSONALLY AND FROM A LOGISTICAL STANDPOINT, THAT YOU HAD TO OVERCOME TO GET TO THAT POINT?

SARAH: MY FATHER WAS ONE OF THE MOST CHARISMATIC, LARGER, INCREDIBLE PROMOTERS I HAVE EVER KNOWN AND THAT I THINK MOST PEOPLE HAD EVER MET.

HE WAS THIS PRESENCE WHO DID THIS INCREDIBLE THING IN BEING A BLACK ENTREPRENEUR IN A TIME WHEN THAT DIDN’T REALLY EXIST.

I THINK IT IS VERY EASY TO REMEMBER THAT PART OF HIM AND LOVE THAT PART OF HIM.

BUT HE WAS ALSO A BLACK MAN BORN IN 1936 IN TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA, WHO HAD A COMPLICATED CHILDHOOD AND A COMPLICATED SET OF TRAUMAS THAT AFFECTED THE TRAJECTORY OF HIS LIFE FOR THE REST OF IT.

SO FOR ME, DEALING WITH THE DUALITY OF THOSE TWO PEOPLE WAS SOMETHING I HAD UNCONSCIOUSLY BEEN GRAPPLING WITH PROBABLY SINCE MY 20’S AND JUST HADN’T REALIZED IT.

THAT WAS THE BIGGEST THING, I THINK FOR ANYONE WHO HAS GENERATIONAL, TRAUMA IN THEIR FAMILY, BIG OR SMALL, HOW YOU COME TO TERMS WITH IT AND HOW YOU FIGURE OUT HOW TO TAKE THE GOOD FROM YOUR PARENTS AND THE GENERATIONS THAT CAME BEFORE AND NOT REPEAT THE BAD IS A CONSTANT STRUGGLE THAT EVERYONE FACES.

FOR ME LAYERED ON TOP OF THAT, THE REALITY IS WE TALK ABOUT IT ON THE PODCAST, MY DAD WAS MARRIED SIX TIMES TO FIVE DIFFERENT WOMEN.

THERE WAS A LOT OF LOVE IN HIS LIFE.

PARIS: PAPA WAS A BIT OF A ROLLING STONE.

SARAH: HE WAS AT TIMES.

AND WITH THAT DYNAMIC CAME A LOT OF FAMILY.

I HAVE HALF BROTHERS, LOTS OF DIFFERENT STEPMOM’S.

THERE IS A LOT OF OF FAMILY BAGGAGE, SO TO SAY.

IN THE LATER YEARS OF HIS LIFE AS HIS FAME HAD DWINDLED AND HIS BAD BUSINESS DECISIONS HAD CAUGHT UP WITH HIM, THERE WAS A LOT OF STRUGGLE WE HAD TO DEAL WITH IN FINANCES, HEALTH, AND DIFFERENT PEOPLE WANTING A SAY AS TO HOW MY DAD WAS LIVING HIS LIFE.

AS YOU WILL HEAR IN THE PODCAST, THE LAST WIFE, MY STEPMOTHER AND I DID NOT ALWAYS SEE HIGH TIDE.

IT WAS A CHARGED SITUATION THAT TOOK OVER A LOT OF THE END OF HIS LIFE.

PARIS: THAT IS THE MOST POIGNANT PART OF THE TRAILER, AT LEAST ONE OF THE MOST POIGNANT.

IT DID MAKE ME WONDER, WHAT SORTS OF OTHER PUSHBACK DID YOU GET FROM YOUR FAMILY OR OTHERS IN THE PURSUIT OF DOING THIS?

SARAH: I WAS REALLY LUCKY AND BEFORE I EVEN STARTED THE PODCAST SPOKE TO ALMOST EVERYONE IN THE FAMILY.

MY MOTHER, ALL MY BROTHERS, MY BEST FRIEND, HUSBAND, DAUGHTER.

I SAT EVERYONE DOWN AND SAID I AM THINKING OF DOING THIS AND I WILL ONLY DO IT IF I HAVE YOUR BLESSING.

IT DOESN’T MEAN YOU NEED TO BE INVOLVED, BUT I WANT TO KNOW WHEN I COME OUT THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS, WE STILL HAVE OUR CONNECTION AS A FAMILY.

I WAS REALLY LUCKY ALL OF THEM WERE VERY SUPPORTIVE.

IN EVERY FAMILY THERE IS A DIFFERENT SET OF DYNAMICS, AND ONE OF THE THINGS I TRIED TO DO IN THE PODCAST -- WE WILL SEE HOW SUCCESSFULLY PEOPLE FEEL I DID IT -- IS GIVE EVERYONE A CHANCE TO SAY THEIR PIECE FOR EXAMINE THEIR PERSPECTIVE.

I THINK OFTEN WITH FAMILIES IT IS EASY TO SEE YOUR POINT OF VIEW AND I REALLY WANTED TO TRY TO TAKE A BIT OF A BIRDSEYE VIEW AND MY FAMILY, MY LIFE, MY FATHER’S LIFE, AND CONSIDER HOW OTHER PEOPLE SOLVE A SET OF SITUATIONS THAT HAD UNFOLDED.

MY DAD WAS THIS EXTREMELY CHARISMATIC MAN AT THE CENTER OF OUR FAMILY AND THE FAME AND MONEY AND SUCCESS AND FAILURES AND ALL THAT CAME WITH IT REVOLVED AROUND HIM.

THIS IS THE FIRST TIME WE AS A FAMILY SAT DOWN TO REALLY TALK ABOUT IT AND FIGURE OUT WHAT THAT REALLY MEANT TO EACH OF US INDIVIDUALLY AND THEREFORE TO US ALL COLLECTIVELY.

PARIS: DO YOU THINK THIS HAS HEALED YOUR FAMILY?

SARAH: WE HEAR A LITTLE BIT OF IT IN THE TRAILER AND WE WILL TALK ABOUT IT MORE.

MY HUSBAND WHO, GOD BLESS HIM, PULLED NO PUNCHES.

HE DOESN’T LIKE BEING IN THE SPOTLIGHT BUT HE CAME THROUGH IN FULL FORCE.

ADMITS AT THE END OF THE TRAILER THAT PERHAPS I COULD BENEFIT FROM ARABI.

-- FROM THERAPY.

PARIS: HAVE YOU GONE?

SARAH: SPOILER ALERT, I AM NOW SEEING A THERAPIST.

PARIS: WELCOME TO THE CLUB.

SARAH: IT’S A GREAT CLUB.

I SAID TO SOMEONE RECENTLY, I THINK IF I HAD NOT DONE THIS PODCAST I WOULD NOT BE SEEING A THERAPIST.

THAT ALONE IS A HUGE BENEFIT.

I AM TRYING MY BEST TO BE COMFORTABLE IN THE UNCOMFORTABLE OF PUTTING MY LIFE AND MY STORY AND MY DAD’S STORY OUT THERE.

I RECOGNIZE NOT EVERYONE IS GOING TO LOVE IT AND NOT EVERYONE IS GOING TO AGREE WITH THE THINGS I SAY, THE CHOICES I MADE, HOW WE PERCEIVE IT ALL.

FOR ME AND MY FAMILY, IT HAS STARTED A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS.

IT HAS BROUGHT MY BROTHERS AND I, SOME OF WHICH I HAVE BEEN DISTANT WITH FOR YEARS, MUCH CLOSER.

IN THE LATER EPISODES, I GET INTO IT WITH MY MOM.

MY MOM AND DAD WERE MARRIED 30 YEARS, TO VARYING DEGREES OF SUCCESS ALONG THE WAY.

WHEN I STARTED THIS PODCAST, I RECOGNIZED I WOULD NEED TO REALLY GO THERE WITH MY RELATIONSHIP WITH MY DAD.

I HADN’T REALLY CONSIDERED I WOULD ALSO NEED TO DO SO WITH MY MOM.

I THINK OUR RELATIONSHIP HAS BENEFITED FROM THAT GREATLY.

JUST THE FACT THAT I AM TALKING MORE AND PROUD TO TELL PEOPLE THAT MY DAD WAS FAMOUS AMOS.

FOR SO LONG, I STAYED AWAY FROM THAT FACT.

IT WAS THE LAST THING I WANTED ANYONE TO KNOW.

BEING COMFORTABLE BEING ABLE TO TALK ABOUT IT AND BE PROUD OF WHO MY DAD WAS AND ACKNOWLEDGED HIS ACCOMPLISHMENTS, WHICH WERE SO MANY -- MORE THAN I EVEN REALIZED WHEN I STARTED THIS -- IT’S BEEN A HUGE GIFT.

PARIS: FOR THOSE WHO MAY NOT KNOW, WHAT WERE SOME OF THOSE ACCOMPLISHMENTS?

SARAH: MY DAD WAS THE FIRST BLACK AGENT AT WILLIAM MORRIS.

A TALENT AGENT WHO HELPED DISCOVER SIMON AND GARFUNKEL, WORKED WITH SAM COOKE, WORKED WITH THE SUPREMES ON A TOUR IN THEIR EARLY DAYS.

THEN PIVOTS FROM THE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY INTO COOKIES.

NOW THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT COOKIE COMPANIES, BOTH IN STANDALONE STORES AND ON SHELVES , THAT IT FEELS COMMONPLACE.

BUT IN 1975, HE REALLY WAS THE FIRST TO CONSIDER OPENING A STORE THAT SOLD NOTHING BUT COOKIES.

DAVID’S COOKIES, MRS.

FIELDS, ALL THE FAST SNACK SHOPS THAT CAME AFTER WOULD NOT EXIST HAD MY DAD NOT TAKEN A RISK IN MARCH OF 1975 AND STARTED FAMOUS AMOS COOKIES, IN WHICH HE PROMOTED THE COMPANY HIMSELF.

THE WAY HE WAS ESSENTIALLY AN INFLUENCER BEFORE THAT WAS A WORD.

>> WHEN I WALKED DOWNSTAIRS, THE COOKIES WERE RIGHT ON THE DESK.

DO LITTLE BAG.

RHEA HAD ANOTHER ONE.

>> SWEET LITTLE SACK.

>> WHAT DOES NOT GO FOR IN THE STORES?

>> ABOUT $2.50.

>> I HAVE NEVER HAD ONE OF YOUR COOKIES, TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE.

>> WE CANNOT CONTINUE.

WE CANNOT TALK ANY LONGER.

WE JUST CAN.

HERE I THOUGHT YOU WERE SOMEONE WHO DID EXTENSIVE RESEARCH.

YOU DIDN’T EAT A COOKIE BEFORE I CAME ON.

SARAH: ALL OF THAT IS REALLY INCREDIBLE.

ANOTHER HUGE PART OF HIS LEGACY IS HIS WORK WITH LITERACY.

HE WAS SPOKESPERSON FOR LITERACY VOLUNTEERS OF AMERICA FOR 20 YEARS, HOSTED CHILDREN’S PROGRAMS TO HELP KIDS LEARN HOW TO READ.

WORKED VERY CLOSELY WITH ADULT LITERACY.

HIS REAL LEGACY AND I THINK THE GREATEST COMPLIMENT HE WAS ALWAYS PROUD OF -- GREATEST ACCOMPLISHMENT HE WAS ALWAYS PROUD OF WAS HOW MUCH HE HELPED A GENERATION OF PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF LITERACY AND NOT BE ASHAMED TO ASK FOR HELP.

PARIS: I UNDERSTAND HE USED TO READ AT YOUR SCHOOL.

SARAH: THE MAN LOVED AN AUDIENCE, UNTIL THE DAY HE DIED.

THAT MAN LOVED AN AUDIENCE.

HE WOULD READ AT MY SCHOOL AS A KID.

HE WOULD GO ACROSS THE COUNTRY EVERYWHERE.

EVERYWHERE HE WENT FOR PROMOTIONAL EVENTS, HE WOULD FIND A WAY TO DO A LITERACY EVENT THERE AS WELL, WHICH WAS REALLY INCREDIBLE.

IT’S FUNNY, I MEET PEOPLE SOMETIMES WHO WHEN THEY FIND OUT WHO MY DAD IS -- OF COURSE SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE, I LOVE THE COOKIES.

BUT SOMETIMES PEOPLE WILL SAY, YOUR DAD TAUGHT ME HOW TO READ.

THAT IS REAL LEGACY.

I THINK AS A KID AND GROWING UP AND ESPECIALLY IN MY 20’S AND 30’S, I WAS SO FOCUSED ON HIS FAILURES.

I THINK THAT’S AN EASY THING FOR US ALL TO GET CAUGHT UP IN WITH OTHERS OR OURSELVES.

IT’S SO EASY TO FOCUS ON THE THINGS WE DO WRONG OR THAT DON’T WORK OR THAT WE WISH WE HAD DONE DIFFERENTLY IN COMPARISON TO OTHERS, AND THAT MAKES IT SO EASY TO LOSE SIGHT OF ACCOMPLISHMENTS AND THINGS WE ARE ABLE TO DO.

MY DAD HAD A GED, BARELY, HAD NO BUSINESS EXPERIENCE.

THE FACT HE WAS ABLE TO START A BRAND THAT 50 YEARS LATER IS STILL ON SHELVES, STILL WELL-KNOWN ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND THE WORLD, IS REALLY INCREDIBLE.

PARIS: I READ THAT OVER TIME HE DIDN’T THINK THE COOKIES WERE AS GOOD AS THEY WERE WHEN HE FIRST BROUGHT THEM TO THE MARKET.

WOULD YOU AGREE?

SARAH: THE MOST IRONIC FACT ABOUT ME IS THAT I ACTUALLY DON’T LIKE CHOCOLATE.

I HAVE NEVER BEEN ONE TO PARTAKE IN THE ORIGINAL RECIPE COOKIES ANYWAY.

I THINK WHEN HE STARTED DIVESTING HIMSELF OF THE COMPANY IN ORDER TO KEEP IT AFLOAT AND THEN LOST MORE AND MORE CONTROL AND LOST CONTROL OF THE COMPANY ENTIRELY WAS REALLY HARD FOR HIM.

NOT JUST IN TERMS OF WHAT THE COOKIE TASTE BECAME BUT THE DECISIONS THAT WERE BEING MADE.

IT HAD BEEN HIS BUSINESS FOR SO LONG -- HIS BABY FOR SO LONG AND THEN IT WASN’T ANYMORE.

I DO THINK THE COOKIE TASTES VERY DIFFERENTLY THAN THAT ORIGINAL COOKIE.

THERE IS NO WAY AROUND THAT.

IT IS SHELFSTABLE NOW AND IS SHIPPED AROUND THE WORLD.

IT IS A DIFFERENT COOKIE THAN WAS BEING MADE BY HAND BY MY DAD AND HIS EMPLOYEES IN BAKERIES.

AT THE SAME TIME, HAD A LOT OF THOSE CHANGES NOT BEEN MADE, THE COMPANY WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SCALE AS SUCCESSFULLY AS IT HAS.

I DO THINK MY DAD WAS GREAT ABOUT NOT DWELLING ON THE PAST OR TRYING TO CHANGE THINGS YOU COULDN’T.

I LOOK AT THE COOKIE RECIPE THE SAME WAY.

IF YOU WANT A TRUE HOMEMADE FAMOUS AMOS COOKIE, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET IT IN THAT PACKAGE.

COME FIND ME, I WILL MAKE YOU SOME.

THEY ARE DELICIOUS.

EVEN THOUGH I DON’T EAT THEM, I DO MAKE THEM.

IT’S A DIFFERENT COOKIE, AND I THINK THAT’S OK.

PARIS: THERANOS.

WE KNOW WHERE TO GO TO FIND THE SECRET FAMILY RECIPE.

SARAH: EXACTLY, JUST COME TO ME.

IT IS SOMETHING I AVOIDED MAKING FOR A LONG TIME AND HAVE GONE BACK INTO.

PARIS: I AM THINKING ABOUT THE PERSON WHO IS WORKING IN A BLACK-OWNED FAMILY BUSINESS.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ARE THE LESSONS AS THEY LISTEN TO THIS?

OR EVEN JUST AN ENTREPRENEUR IN GENERAL?

PARIS: IT IS SO IMPORTANT -- SARAH: IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO SURROUND YOURSELF WITH THE RIGHT PEOPLE.

SO MANY MISTAKES MY DAD MADE IN THEIR EARLY YEARS WERE NOT TRUSTING THE RIGHT PEOPLE.

IT’S EASY SOMETIMES FOR WHITE ENTREPRENEURS TO SUCCEED BECAUSE THEY HAVE COME UP IN COMMUNITIES AND NETWORKS WHERE THERE IS AN ABUNDANCE OF MENTORS AND EXPERIENCE AND PEOPLE THEY CAN LEARN FROM.

MY DAD CAME UP IN A WORLD WHERE THERE WAS NO ONE ELSE HE COULD REALLY TURN TO FOR ADVICE.

THERE WAS NO ONE IN HIS FAMILY WHO HAD GONE TO BUSINESS SCHOOL.

HIS PARENTS DIDN’T EVEN LEARN TO READ UNTIL THEY WERE ADULTS.

THERE WASN’T QUITE THAT NETWORK OF SUPPORT THAT OFTEN COMES IN OTHER COMMUNITIES.

I THINK THAT MAKES IT SO MUCH MORE IMPORTANT TO REALLY FIND PEOPLE WHO YOU CAN TRUST, PEOPLE WHO CAN BE YOUR ADVOCATES, MENTORS, TEACHERS.

AND REALLY LISTEN TO THE ADVICE THEY ARE GIVEN.

MY FATHER WAS AN INCREDIBLE PROVIDER.

HE WAS A VERY BAD BUSINESSMAN.

I THINK TOO OFTEN, HIS TALENT IN PROMOTION MADE HIM FORGET HE SHOULD LISTEN TO PEOPLE WHEN IT CAME TO THE BUSINESS SIDE.

HE THOUGHT HE COULD DO IT ALL AND HE COULDN’T.

I THINK THAT’S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR ANYONE IN THE BUSINESS TO REALIZE.

NO ONE CAN DO IT ALL.

YOU NEED TO FIND THE RIGHT TEAM, TRUST THE RIGHT PEOPLE, AND TRUST THE ADVICE AND OPINIONS THAT OTHER PEOPLE GIVE YOU.

IF YOU TRY TO SUCCEED ENTIRELY ON YOUR OWN, YOU WILL ALMOST ALWAYS FAIL.

SARAH: I -- PARIS: I AM ALSO THINKING ABOUT -- I’M SURE THERE IS SO MUCH THAT YOU LEFT OUT OF THE PODCAST.

ARE THERE MORE STORIES TO TELL ABOUT YOUR FAMILY AND ABOUT YOUR FATHER?

IF SO, WILL YOU BE TELLING THEM?

SARAH: I LEFT SO MUCH OUT.

AS YOU LISTEN TO THE PODCAST, YOU WILL HEAR MY THREE BROTHERS ARE INCREDIBLE STORYTELLERS AND VERY DIFFERENT.

MY BEST FRIEND AND I COULD HAVE A RUNNING PODCAST WITH THE SAME STORIES WE HAVE HAD OVER THE YEARS.

I HAVE NO IDEA IF I WILL BE TELLING MORE STORIES.

I AM SO FOCUSED ON PUTTING THIS OUT INTO THE WORLD AND CREATING SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE ARE ENTERTAINED BY, MAYBE SEE A BIT OF THEIR OWN FAMILY DRAMA AND EXPERIENCES IN SOMETHING PEOPLE CAN TAKE AWAY SOME LESSONS FROM.

WHERE WE GO FROM THERE, WHO KNOWS.

WE DID HAVE TO LEAVE A LOT ON THE CUTTING ROOM FLOOR.

THERE IS A LOT OF HIJINKS IN OUR FAMILY, A LOT OF CRAZY STORIES FROM MY DAD AT THE HEIGHT OF FAME, MY BROTHERS DEALING WITH THE FAME.

FOR ME BEING A DEEPLY EMBARRASSED TEENAGER, THE FATHER WHO WORE A WATERMELON TOP HAT.

IT WAS AN ENDLESS SET OF MATERIAL AND WE HAVE WHITTLED IT DOWN TO WHAT WE HOPE IS SIX REALLY COMPELLING, HEARTFELT, FUNNY EPISODES.

PARIS: WE WILL CERTAINLY BE LOOKING FORWARD TO LISTENING.

WHO KNOWS, MAYBE ONE DAY YOUR DAUGHTER WILL BE TELLING THE SARAH AMOS STORY.

SARAH: MY DAUGHTER IS VERY UPSET I DIDN’T INTERVIEW HER FOR THE PODCAST.

HAS STRONG THOUGHTS ABOUT IT AS AN EIGHT-YEAR-OLD.

ANYONE WHO WANTS TO HEAR PART TWO, JUST THE MY DAUGHTER’S STORY, RIGHT IN AND LET US KNOW.

PARIS: SARAH AMOS, HOST OF THE TOUGH COOKIE PODCAST ABOUT HER FATHER, WALLY AMOS OF FAMOUS AMOS.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

SARAH: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME, THIS HAS BEEN WONDERFUL.

PARIS: THANK YOU TO SARAH AMOS FOR SHARING THE POWERFUL HEALING THAT HAPPENS WHEN WE LOOK BACK ON OUR FAMILY DYNAMICS.

NOW WE ARE SHIFTING FROM COOKIES TO SOMETHING JUST AS DELICIOUS, FRITTERS.

SEASONED WITH SOUL OWNER RHONDA JOINS ME TO REVEAL THE SECRET DECLINE -- BEHIND HER GRANDFATHER’S MOUTHWATERING FRITTERS RECIPE.

MMM.

OH MY GOD.

WOW.

CAN IE TO ANOTHER ONE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

PARIS: LET’S DO ANOTHER TAKE.

[LAUGHTER] RHONDA: THANKS FOR COMING, I HOPE YOU ARE HUNGRY.

MY NAME IS RHONDA PERSIP AND TODAY WE WILL BE MAKING MY GRANDFATHER’S FAMOUS CORN FURTHER RECIPE.

WE ARE GOING TO LET THIS HEAT UP WHILE GETTING THE BATTER READY.

I AM FROM THE BERKSHIRES, I OWN SEASONED WITH SOUL CATERING IN BOSTON.

PARIS: WHAT GOES INTO THE FRITTERS?

RHONDA: CORN OF COURSE, PINEAPPLE, EGGS, BISQUICK, AND MILK.

WE ARE GOING TO DO THIS AND START GETTING OUR DEGREES HOT FIRST.

I AM THIRD-GENERATION IN THIS BUSINESS.

MY GRANDFATHER STARTED IT IN THE LATE 1800S.

HE WAS THE FIRST PERSON OF COLOR TO OWN A RESTAURANT IN THE BERKSHIRES IN 1906.

THIS ONE WAS OWNED BY MY GRANDFATHER AND HIS MODE OF TRANSPORTATION, A BICYCLE.

A COPY OF HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

PARIS: HE WAS BORN 22 YEARS AFTER EMANCIPATION.

RHONDA: MY FATHER’S FAMILY HAS BEEN IN PITTSFIELD SINCE 1763.

MY GRANDFATHER HAD BEEN FOR MANY YEARS IN THE CATERING BUSINESS AND MY FATHER HAD 12 SIBLINGS.

ALL THE KIDS AND COUSINS AND EVERYTHING, WHEN WE GOT OF AGE MY GRANDFATHER WOULD GO, IT’S YOUR TURN, CARRY A TRAY.

SO WE HAD TO HELP IN THE FAMILY BUSINESS.

MY AUNT FRAN, SECOND OLDEST OF THE 12 SIBLINGS, TOOK OVER THE BUSINESS FROM MY GRANDFATHER.

I USED TO SPEND SUMMERS LIVING IN PITTSFIELD WITH HER AND WORKING AT HANCOCK SHAKER VILLAGE, WHERE SHE RAN THE KITCHEN.

PARIS: HOW DID YOU END UP HERE IN WILKES-BARRE?

RHONDA: I NEVER REALLY LEFT THE BERKSHIRES AND FINALLY IN 2000 DECIDED IT WAS TIME TO MAKE A MOVE.

25 YEARS LATER, HERE I AM.

PARIS: AND IT’S VERY IMPORTANT TO USE BISQUICK.

NOT JEFFREY.

RHONDA: NOT JUST ANYTHING.

AND ONLY BECAUSE YOU ARE HERE, I’M GOING TO TRY TO BE GOOD AND CLEAN UP AFTER MYSELF AS WE GO ALONG.

WE ALWAYS HAD COUSINS WHO WERE THERE TO CLEAN UP THAT WERE NOT COOKING.

PARIS: WAS THAT LIKE AN ENTRY-LEVEL JOB?

RHONDA: IT MUST’VE BEEN.

EVEN NOW WHEN PEOPLE ASK ME WHERE I AM FROM AND I TELL THEM THE BERKSHIRES, THEY GO, THERE’S PEOPLE OF COLOR THERE?

THERE’S A LOT OF US.

PEOPLE DON’T REALIZE IT BUT THERE IS OLD-TIME FAMILIES THAT HAVE BEEN THERE FOR YEARS.

PARIS: DO YOU MIND IF I DIP ONE?

I’M GOING TO GET ABOUT A SPOONFUL.

THEN JUST DROP IT RIGHT IN.

RHONDA: RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE.

PARIS: THERE WE ARE.

LET’S SEE WHAT SHE LOOKS LIKE.

RHONDA: WE ARE GOING TO DRAIN THEM ON THIS PAPER TOWEL.

THIS SPOON IS ABOUT -- I DON’T EVEN KNOW, 75 OR MORE YEARS OLD.

PARIS: IT HAS HELD UP.

RHONDA: IT HAS AND IT HAS BEEN THROUGH A LOT WITH ME.

NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO IN ANY OTHER ROOM, YOU ALWAYS GRAVITATE TO THE KITCHEN.

PEOPLE ALWAYS WANT TO HELP AND ALWAYS PUT THEIR FINGERS IN SOMETHING, OPEN THE POTS AND SEE WHAT YOU ARE COOKING.

IT’S A LABOR OF LOVE FOR ME.

FIRST CORN FRITTER.

PARIS: MY FIRST JOHN PERSIP CORN FRITTER.

I NOTED HOW LIGHT AND FLUFFY THEY WERE COMING OUT OF THE PAN.

MMM.

OH MY GOD.

CAN I EAT ANOTHER ONE?

RHONDA: ABSOLUTELY.

PARIS: LET’S DO ANOTHER TAKE.

WE WILL SEE IF I CAN RE-CREATE THEM ON MY OWN.

THAT WOULD BE A TASK.

PARIS: THAT’S IT FOR TODAY’S EPISODE OF ROOTED.

THANKS TO SARAH AMOS FOR SHARING THE TRUE STORY BEHIND TOUGH COOKIE, THE WALLY FAMOUS AMOS STORY.

AND TO RHONDA PERSIP FOR LETTING US IN ON THE SECRET OF THOSE INCREDIBLE FRITTERS.

DON’T FORGET YOU CAN FOLLOW "ROOTED" ON INSTAGRAM, TIKTOK, SPOTIFY, OR WHEREVER YOU GET YOUR PODCASTS.

IF YOU WANT TO STAY CONNECTED, YOU CAN EMAIL US, SUBSCRIBE TO OUR NEWSLETTER, AND DURING THE CONVERSATION.

UNTIL NEXT TIME, STAY ROOTED, STAY SEASONED, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, STAY TUNED.

>> WHEN I WALKED DOWNSTAIRS TONIGHT, THE COOKIES WERE RIGHT ON THE DESK.

THIS BAG SAYS CUTE LITTLE BAG.

AND THERE WAS ANOTHER ONE, SWEET LITTLE SACK.

WHAT DOES THAT GO FOR IN THE STORES?

>> THIS BAG SELLS FOR ABOUT $2.50.

>> I HAVE NEVER HAD ONE OF YOUR COOKIES, TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE.

>> WE CANNOT CONTINUE.

WE CANNOT TALK ANY LONGER.

WE JUST CAN’T, WE CAN’T POSSIBLY.

AND HERE I THOUGHT YOU WERE SOMEONE WHO DID EXTENSIVE RESEARCH.

AND YOU DIDN’T EAT A COOKIE BEFORE I CAME ON.

♪