RAHSAAN: WELCOME TO "BASIC BLACK."

SOME OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR BROADCAST, OTHERS ON OUR DIGITAL PLATFORMS.

I MERSHON HALL -- I AM RAHSAAN HALL, PRESIDENT AND CEO OF THE URBAN LEAGUE AND YOUR HOST THIS EVENING.

TONIGHT, THE STATE OF BLACK MEN AND BOYS.

OUR DISCUSSION WILL TOUCH ON A RANGE OF SUBJECTS FROM MENTAL HEALTH, EMPLOYMENT, TO THE IMPORTANT SEVERAL MODELS AND MENTORS.

WE’VE GOT A LOT TO GET TO, SO LET’S GET STARTED.

JOINING US TONIGHT, DR. KEVIN SIMON IS A PEDIATRIC PSYCHIATRIST AT BOSTON’S CHILDREN’S HOSPITAL AND CHIEF BEHAVIORAL HEALTH OFFICER AT THE BOSTON PUBLIC HEALTH COMMISSION FOR THE CITY OF BOSTON.

JONATHAN ALLEN IS THE CO-FOUNDER AND DIRECTOR OF DEVELOPMENT AT LEADERSHIP BRAINERY, AN ORGANIZATION THAT CREATES EQUITABLE ACCESS TO MASTER’S AND DOCTORAL DEGREES AND WORKFORCE LEADERSHIP OPPORTUNITIES FOR YOUNG LEADERS FROM UNDERREPRESENTED BACKGROUNDS.

ADRIAN MAJOR IS THE FOUNDER OF DREAMCATCHER INITIATIVE, AN ORGANIZATION THAT CREATES PATHWAYS AND PROGRAMS TO EMPOWER YOUTH AND THAT WILL HELP THEM ACHIEVE THEIR DREAMS AND REALIZE THEIR POTENTIAL.

AND JAMES MACKEY, VICE CHAIR OF THE BLACK MEN AND BOYS COMMISSION FOR THE CITY OF BOSTON.

HE IS ALSO A COMMUNITY ADVOCATE, A BLACK MALE HEALTH AND WELLNESS GROUP FACILITATOR AND THE FOUNDER OF, BROTHERS BUILDING, AS WELL AS THE FOUNDER OF DFFRNT, A CLOTHING BRAND FOCUSED ON SOCIAL AND EMOTIONAL WELLNESS.

AND GABRIEL PETIT IS A DREAMCATCHER INITIATIVE MENTEE AND PARTICIPANT.

WELCOME TO YOU ALL.

IT IS GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE THIS EVENING TO TALK ABOUT THIS CONVERSATION THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT IN OUR COMMUNITY.

THERE ARE A LOT OF NARRATIVES THAT EXIST ABOUT THE CHALLENGES WE AS BLACK MEN FACE.

I WOULD LIKE TO SHIFT THAT CONVERSATION A BIT AND START OFF WITH JOY.

JONATHAN, WHAT IS SO JOYFUL ABOUT BEING A BLACK MAN?

JONATHAN: MY GOODNESS.

I THINK OF ALL THE CREATIVITY BOTTLED UP INSIDE OF ME.

I CAN SPEAK FROM LIVING MY LIFE, RIGHT?

I CAN’T SPEAK FOR WHAT IT MEANS OR HOW IT FEELS FOR ANY OF THESE OTHER BROTHERS TO EMBODY JOY IN THEIR OWN LIVES.

BUT FOR ME AS A BLACK GAY MAN, THAT JOY OF BELIEVING AND LOVING MYSELF DESPITE IF ANYBODY ELSE DOES IS A JOY I HAVE LEARNED TO EMBODY AND NOT ONE I WOULD SAY I WAS NECESSARILY ALWAYS CARRYING.

I HAVE HAD TO CULTIVATE IT THROUGH A MYRIAD OF CIRCUMSTANCES AND EXPERIENCES, AND I’M GLAD I GOT IT.

THIS JOY THAT I HAVE, THE WORLD CAN’T GIVE IT, THE WORLD CAN’T TAKE IT AWAY.

RAHSAAN: ADRIAN, SOME OF THE WORK YOU DO WITH THE DREAM CATCHER INITIATIVE RINGS YOU IN TOUCH WITH A LOT OF FOLKS MAY NOT BE IN JOYFUL SITUATIONS, BUT HOW DO YOU CARRY THAT MESSAGE OF JOY TO THE PEOPLE YOU ARE WORKING WITH?

WHAT ARE THE VALUES YOU LIFT UP?

ADRIAN: ONE IS BEING GENUINE WITH YOURSELF.

WE ALWAYS THINK OF HAPPY AS HAVING AN EXTERNAL SMILE.

YOU’VE GOT TO HAVE AN INTERNAL SMILE AS WELL.

UNDERSTANDING THAT CULTURALLY YOU’VE GOT TO GO INTERNALLY AND FIGURE OUT HISTORICAL VALUES AND MAKE THOSE -- INTERNAL VALUES AND MAKE THOSE THINGS EXTERNAL TOO.

AND TEACHING THE YOUNG MEN AND LADIES TO KEEP HOPE ALIVE, WHICH IS AN ACRONYM FOR US.

IT STANDS FOR HELPING OTHER PEOPLE ELEVATE.

WE GOT TO HELP OTHER PEOPLE ELEVATE.

RAHSAAN: JAMES, YOU HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN ADVOCACY AND ACTIVISM ON A WHOLE HOST OF ISSUES, AND I KNOW THAT CAN BE, BECAUSE WE’VE DONE SOME OF THAT WORK TOGETHER, IT CAN BE VERY DEMANDING AND DRAINING.

WHAT IS IT ABOUT YOUR BLACK MANHOOD THAT BRINGS YOU JOY IN THE MIDST OF THOSE EXPERIENCES?

JAMES: I APPRECIATE YOUR QUESTION.

FOR ME, BEING A HUSBAND TO MY BEAUTIFUL WIFE, BEING A DAD -- BEING A FATHER TO MY BEAUTIFUL CHILDREN AND JUST SEEING THEM, WATCHING THEM ENJOY LIFE, GO THROUGH THE UPS AND DOWNS OF HOW TO NAVIGATE THE SOCIETY WE LIVE IN, BUT STILL BEING PRESENT IN MOMENTS WHERE THERE IS A LOT OF ADVERSITY, BUT KNOWING THAT I AM GOOD, KNOWING THAT MY FAMILY IS GOOD, KNOWING THAT MY PEOPLE IS GOOD, AND KNOWING THAT I AM AUTHENTICALLY ME IS KEY.

SO BEING DIFFERENT, NOT COMPROMISING ON INTEGRITY, ALL OF THOSE THINGS BRING ME JOY.

RAHSAAN:RAHSAAN: ADRIAN: -- RAHSAAN: THAT IS FANTASTIC.

GABRIEL, YOU HAVE THE PRIVILEGE OF BEING THE YOUNGEST PERSON HERE.

THERE IS A LOVE CRITIQUE ABOUT THE YOUNGER GENERATION, HOW MENTAL HEALTH AND EMOTIONAL INSTABILITY MAKES IT SEEM THAT SO MANY OF YOU ALL, PEOPLE IN YOUR AGE GROUP, DO NOT HAVE JOY.

TO THE EXTENT THAT THOSE THINGS ARE TRUE, WHAT IS IT THAT YOU SEE THAT BRINGS YOU JOY OR THAT YOU SEE AS JOYFUL IN YOU AND YOUR FRIENDS IN YOUR AGE GROUP.

GABRIEL: THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION.

SOMETHING THAT BRINGS ME JOY AS A BLACK MAN IS BEING A PROTECTOR NATURALLY, SOMEBODY PEOPLE LOOK AT AS A SAFE SOUL.

JUST BEING A BLACK MAN IN MY SKIN, I FEEL LIKE PEOPLE FEEL SAFE AROUND ME BECAUSE OF HOW I ACTED WHERE I GREW UP IN WHERE I COME FROM.

I’M NOT EASY.

I AM DEFINITELY TOUGH.

WHEN I GET INTO SITUATIONS, I TRIED TO DOMINATE IT, TAKE IT OVER, AS A BLACK MAN.

I BELIEVE THAT IS SOMETHING GREAT THAT HAPPENS.

RAHSAAN: DR. SIMON, I TOUCH ON IT A BIT WITH GABRIEL, BUT THE PREVALENCE OF MENTAL HEALTH CONCERNS AND PUSHING BACK ON THIS NARRATIVE AGAINST THE STRUGGLES THAT BLACK MEN HAVE.

WHY IS IT IMPORTANT FOR US TO CREATE NARRATIVES ABOUT THE THINGS THAT WE ARE ACTUALLY DOING?

I REMEMBER NOT LONG AGO THAT THERE WAS THIS INSTAGRAM TREND WHERE BLACK MEN WERE AROUND VIDEOING THEMSELVES FROLICKING, JUST HAVING FUN LIKE, OH, WE FROLICKING RIGHT NOW?

WHY IS THAT SO IMPORTANT?

DR. SIMON: AS THE GENTLEMAN ACKNOWLEDGED, THE DIFFERENT REPRESENTATIONS OF JOY.

JOY CAN MAKE YOU FEEL FREE, POWERFUL, THAT YOU CAN BE ANYTHING YOU WANT TO BE, THINK ABOUT ANYTHING YOU WANT TO BE.

IN OUR PARTICULAR SOCIETY, OFTEN TIMES WE ARE NOT TOLD THAT WE CAN BE WHAT WE WANT TO BE, WE CAN GO WHERE WE WANT TO GO.

WE CAN DRIVE DOWN THE ROAD WE WANT TO DRIVE DOWN.

THERE ARE A LOT OF INSTANCES WHERE THE RULES OF SOCIETY SEEM AS THOUGH THEY ARE AGAINST THE BLACK MALE.

IF YOU CAN FIND JOY AND LIVE YOUR TRUTH, THAT IS VERY POWERFUL, AND IT IS NEEDED BECAUSE THE EXTERNAL PRESSURES OF SOCIETY CONSISTENTLY DEMONSTRATE MAYBE THEY DO NOT WANT NECESSARILY BLACK MAN TO FEEL THE JOYS THAT THESE BROTHERS JUST TALKED ABOUT.

RAHSAAN: JAMES, DR. SIMON TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THE RESTRICTIONS THAT SOCIETY HAS PLACED ON US AS BLACK MEN.

YOU HAVE BEEN ONE WHO HAS CONSISTENTLY PUSHED BACK AGAINST SOME OF THOSE.

WHAT ARE THE ARRAY OF ISSUES, BECAUSE FOR AS MUCH AS IT IS IMPORTANT FOR US TO HAVE JOY AND REDEFINE WHAT THE EXPERIENCE OF BLACK MEN IS, THERE ARE VERY PRACTICAL REALITIES THAT WE FACE DAY TODAY.

WHAT ARE THE THINGS YOU SEE AS SOME OF THE MOST PRESSING ISSUES THAT BLACK MEN ARE FACING THAT HAS LED TO SOME OF YOUR ADVOCACY?

JAMES: DUE TO THE SYSTEMATIC RACISM THAT HAS BEEN PLAGUED ON BLACK MEN SINCE OUR EXISTENCE IN THIS COUNTRY, EVERY DAY I LOOK AND A BROTHER’S FACE AND I CAN SEE SO MANY COME HAVING ISSUES THAT THEY ARE DEALING WITH, WHETHER IT BE -- SO MANY COMPOUNDING ISSUES THAT THEY ARE DEALING WITH, WHETHER IT BE FOOD AND, WHETHER THEY CAN’T FIND MEANINGFUL EMPLOYMENT, WHETHER THEY ARE WALKING ON THE STREET AND SOMEONE CROSSES THE STREET BECAUSE THEY FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE AND THINK THAT SOMETHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO THEM, OR JUST BEING WITH YOUR WIFE AT A HOSPITAL VISIT WITH YOUR CHILDREN AND THEY SPEAK ONLY TO YOUR WIFE AND NOT YOU, NOT BEING ACKNOWLEDGED, NOT BEING SEEN.

YOU FEEL LIKE YOU ARE NOT BEING HEARD.

OR EVEN IN PUBLIC SPACES AND PLACES WHERE EVERYONE ELSE HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO FEEL FREE BUT YOU FEEL EXCLUDED BECAUSE YOU AND EVERYTHING YOU ARE DOING, CAMERAS ARE ON YOU, PEOPLE ARE WATCHING.

ONE WRONG MISTAKE CAN COST YOU.

THAT COMPOUNDING TRAUMA IMPACTS OUR HEALTH.

SO THE SOCIAL DETERMINANTS OF INEQUITIES WE FACE ARE KILLING US FASTER THAN ANY RACE AND ENGENDER ACROSS THIS COUNTRY -- AND ANY GENDER ACROSS THIS COUNTRY, AND THAT IS A PROBLEM.

RAHSAAN: THAT IS A VERY VALID POINT.

I THINK THE WAY IT SHOWS UP SOMETIMES CAN BE NEGATIVE.

ADRIAN, THE WORK YOU DO WITH DREAM CATCHERS, CAN YOU SAY LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT AND WHY IT IS SO IMPORTANT, ESPECIALLY GIVEN HOW SOME OF THESE RESTRICTIONS AND THE OPPRESSION WE FACE MANIFESTS ITSELF IN NEGATIVE WAYS IN OUR COMMUNITY?

ADRIAN: THANKS FOR THE QUESTION.

WITH US, THE BIGGEST THING IS PUTTING YOUR DREAMS AS A POSSIBILITY.

WE ALWAYS SAY THE WORD DREAM, BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO MAKE IT POSSIBLE, THAT I CAN DO SOMETHING, I CAN ACCOMPLISH SOMETHING?

WE CAN LOOK AT ALL THE ANGST IN ALL THESE THINGS THAT GO AROUND IN THE COMMUNITY, BUT AT A CERTAIN POINT, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO STAND UP AND SAY WE’VE GOT TO UP RISE THEM.

-- RISE UP AGAINST THEM.

WE CAN IDENTIFY THEM, BUT THEY SHOULD NOT STIFLE HER GREATNESS.

THERE IS GREATNESS IN ALL OF US, AND LET’S GET TO IT.

SOMETIMES YOU DON’T HAVE A QUARTERBACK, DON’T HAVE A BLOCKER, BUT I AM GOING TO BE THAT AN ADVOCATE FOR THE THINGS YOU DESERVE.

MEN AND WOMEN, YOU DESERVE IT.

WHAT BETTER THAN TO SAY I WANT TO DO THIS, LET’S MAKE IT HAPPEN?

REGARDLESS OF WHAT REGIME, WHAT INSTITUTION.

TIME TO THIS JUST A VOICE OF REASON, A VOICE THAT WILL CHALLENGE -- SOMETIMES IT IS JUST A VOICE OF REASON, A VOICE THAT WILL CHALLENGE THE REGIME.

WE CAN CELEBRATE AND GROW TOGETHER.

RAHSAAN: I THINK THAT IS AN IMPORTANT ASPECT.

WE ARE TRYING TO PUSH BACK AGAINST SOME OF THE NARRATIVES THAT EXIST AROUND BLACK MEN.

GABRIEL, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT YOU HAVE HAD SOME CHALLENGES ALONG THE WAY, BUT YOU HAVE BEEN ABLE TO CATCH SOME OF YOUR DREAMS.

CAN YOU SAY A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT SOME OF YOUR EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN AND WHERE YOU ARE NOW WITH WHAT YOU ARE DOING?

TO ADRIAN’S POINT, WE CAN PUSH BACK AGAINST THE THINGS THAT ARE OPPRESSING US AND GO AFTER THE THINGS WE WANT TO SEE.

GABRIEL: SOME OF THE THINGS I HAVE ACCOMPLISHED, I WENT TO COLLEGE -- FIRST TIME WANT TO SAY I HAD A ROUGH UPBRINGING AS A YOUTH.

I WAS INCARCERATED.

BIG CASES, BIG CHARGES ON FIREARMS, DRUGS.

I WAS JUST IN THE WRONG PLACE AT THE WRONG TIME IN MY LIFE.

IT’S ALL MY FAULT, BUT IN MY LIFE I WAS NOT IN THE RIGHT PLACE.

I DID EVERYTHING I HAD TO DO.

I CAME HOME AND CHANGED MY LIFE.

I STARTED A BUSINESS CALLED LOTUS SPRINGS, BASED OFF THE LOTUS FLOWER AND THE CONCEPT OF THE LOTUS FLOWER, HOW IT GROWS IN THE MUD AND GROWS TO BE BEAUTIFUL.

I WANTED MY BUSINESS TO BE ABOUT THAT.

IT IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING TO GROW OFF OF.

I HAVE NOT RUN OFF OF IT TOO MUCH, BUT I HAVE ESTABLISHED MY BUSINESS AND MAKE MONEY OFF MY BUSINESS AND PARTICIPATED IN POP-UP SHOPS.

IT IS SOMETHING I AM VERY PROUD OF.

AFTER THAT, I WENT TO COLLEGE AT BENJAMIN FRANKLIN INSTITUTE.

I GOT MAY HVAC APPRENTICE LICENSE.

I GOT AN EPA AND I AM CERTIFIED.

I HAVE BEEN ACHIEVING EVER SINCE I WAS RELEASED AND I SAW THAT MY FREEDOM WAS TAKEN AWAY FOR ME, I CAME HOME AND REALIZED IT WAS TIME I NEEDED TO ACHIEVE.

RAHSAAN: THAT IS SO FANTASTIC.

SHOUT OUT TO THIS BROTHER FOR DOING POSITIVE THINGS AND TURNING IT AROUND EVEN IN THE FACE OF SOME MAJOR BARRIERS.

KEEPING WITH THIS THEME OF CREATING OUR OWN DESTINY AND OUR OWN FUTURE DESPITE WHAT IS OUT THERE, JONATHAN, LEADERSHIP BRAINTREE IS DOING SOME IMPRESSIVE WORK TO CREATE MORE PATHWAYS FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE HIGHER EARNING POTENTIAL, TO BE IN POSITIONS THAT MAKE MORE MONEY BUT ALSO HAVE MORE INFLUENCE AND IMPACT ON THE SOCIETY WE LIVE IN.

COULD YOU SAY A LITTLE MORE ABOUT LEADERSHIP BRAINERY AND WHY IT IS IMPORTANT FOR YOU AS A BLACK MAN TO HAVE AN ORGANIZATION LIKE THAT, AND THE IMPACT THAT ORGANIZATION HAS?

JONATHAN: THAT IS SO LOADED AND SO IMPORTANT.

LEADERSHIP BRAINERY WAS FOUNDED BY MYSELF AND MY PARTNER DEREK, WHO IS ALSO OUR FULL-TIME EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, OUT OF OUR OWN LIVED EXPERIENCE BEING UNDERREPRESENTED IN GRADUATE SCHOOL.

GOING INTO LAW SCHOOL UP THE STREET, WALKING IN ON THE FIRST DAY, I WAS ONE OF FOUR BLACK MEN OUT OF 250 STUDENTS ADMITTED INTO OUR LAW SCHOOL CLASS.

DEREK WENT TO THE CITY FOR HIS MASTERS IN PUBLIC HEALTH AND WAS THE ONLY BLACK MAN IN HIS COHORT.

THAT YEAR THE NUMBERS WENT DOWN AND HE WAS THE ONLY BLACK MAN IN THE COHORT.

THIS ISSUE IS PERVASIVE ACROSS SO MANY OF OUR COMPETITIVE GRADUATE SCHOOLS.

THE BUREAU OF LABOR STATISTICS HAS REPORTED THAT THE FASTEST-GROWING SEGMENT OF THE WORKFORCE ARE JOBS THAT ARE READ WIRING MASTERS AND DOCTORAL DEGREES AT ENTRY-LEVEL -- THAT ARE REQUIRING MASTERS AND DOCTORAL DEGREES AT ENTRY-LEVEL.

IN THE 1960’S AND 1970’S AND 1980’S, THERE WERE MORE BLACK MEN IN SCHOOL THEN THAN THERE ARE TODAY.

-- IN BED SCHOOL -- INMED SCHOOL THEN THEN THERE ARE TODAY.

THIS IS ONE OF THE CHRONIC ISSUES PERPETUATING ANY OF THE EQUITIES AND CHALLENGES WE ARE EXPERIENCING IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

IT IS ALSO ABOUT REPRESENTATION.

THE MORE WE SEE WHAT WE CAN BE, THE MORE OUR IMAGINATIONS EXPAND AROUND WHAT IS POSSIBLE FOR OURSELVES.

YET IN OUR COMMUNITIES, WE ARE NOT AT THE SAME VELOCITY AND RATE TELLING OUR YOUNG PEOPLE THAT THEY CAN BE ASTRONAUTS AND DOCTORS AND LAWYERS AND CEO’S AND MENTAL HEALTH THERAPISTS AND PSYCHIATRISTS AND PSYCHOLOGISTS AND THAT THEY CAN ASCEND TO THESE LEVELS OF INFLUENCE.

WHEN WE THINK ABOUT MANAGEMENT AND SENIOR LEADERSHIP ROLES IN THE WORKFORCE, THEY ARE THE DECISION-MAKERS ABOUT HOW RESOURCES ARE ALLOCATED, OPPORTUNITIES ARE BEING GIVEN, AND WE ARE NOT REPRESENTED AT THE LEVEL WE NEED TO, AND GRADUATE SCHOOL IS THE PATHWAY THERE.

IT IS NOT THE ONLY PATHWAY, FOR SURE, THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE DONE FABULOUS THINGS WITH THEIR LIVES WITHOUT A MASTERS OR DOCTORAL DEGREE.

AND YOU NEED TO DECIDE IF GRADUATE SCHOOL IS RIGHT FOR YOU.

BUT THERE ARE CERTAIN OCCUPATIONS WHERE YOU CANNOT ENTER INTO THAT FIELD WITHOUT IT.

YOU CAN’T DO IT BECAUSE YOU NEED IT, AND WE KNOW OUR COMMUNITIES ARE IN MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS.

BUT WE NEED TO BE PREACHING TO OUR YOUNG PEOPLE THAT WE NEED THEM IN THESE FIELDS WHERE A BIT MORE EDUCATION IS GOING TO BE REQUIRED.

YES, STUDENT LOAN DEBT IS A BIG CHALLENGE FOR THAT, WHICH IS WHY WE NEED TO THINK STRATEGICALLY ABOUT HOW WE RECALIBRATE OUR PHILANTHROPIC INTERESTS TO ALSO SAY TO OUR YOUNG PEOPLE WE WON’T LET DEBT BE A BARRIER FOR YOU GOING INTO MASTERS OR DOCTORAL DEGREES.

AS WE THINK ABOUT SCHOLARSHIP AID, WE KNOW GRADUATE SCHOLARSHIP AID IS PENNIES COMPARED TO WHAT WE SEE IN UNDERGRAD.

WE NEED TO BE STRATEGIC AND MOBILIZE AROUND THIS.

RAHSAAN: I WANT TO GO BACK TO SOMETHING YOU TALKED ABOUT, PARTICULARLY AROUND MENTAL HEALTH AND ISSUES OF SOCIAL DETERMINANTS OF HEALTH YOUTHERE IS A CLIP WE WANT TO PLAY THAT IS FROM ROUND TABLE WAS HELD I BELIEVE I THE U.S. ATTORNEY -- NONATTORNEY, THE SURGEON GENERAL, TALKING ABOUT THE NEED FOR BLACK MEN IN PARTICULAR TO GET HELP WITH MENTAL HEALTH.

YOU TALKED ABOUT STUDENT LOANS.

IF SOMETHING IS GOING TO DEPRESS YOU, THAT’S IT.

BUT THE REALITY OF THE TRAUMAS WE ARE FACING, THE CONDITIONS WE ARE LIVING IN IN OUR COMMUNITY, THE EXPERIENCES WE HAVE BEEN EXPOSED TO, AND THE RELUCTANCE ON THE PART OF MANY TO GET HELP.

LET’S CALL THIS CLIP AND GET SOME FEEDBACK FROM YOU AFTER.

>> FOR ME, IT WAS HARD TO ACTUALLY ADMIT THAT I NEEDED HELP.

I COULD FEEL, ESPECIALLY DURING THE COVID 19 PANDEMIC, WHEN I ACTUALLY STARTED TO, YOU KNOW, REACH OUT TO OTHERS FOR HELP, I I JUST FELT JUST AN ENORMOUS STRESS OVER ME.

I FELT THAT I WAS DEPRESSED.

I WASN’T BEING THE SAME AROUND MY FAMILY.

I WASN’T PLAYING VIDEO GAMES WITH MY BROTHER LIKE I NORMALLY DO.

I WASN’T, YOU KNOW, GOSSIPING WITH MY TWIN SISTER LIKE I NORMALLY DO.

I WAS BECOMING -- I WAS GETTING OUT OF OUT OF MY CHARACTER.

AND THAT’S WHEN I REALIZED THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE’S NOT ANYTHING WRONG WITH ME, BUT I DO NEED SOMEONE THAT’S GOING TO HELP ME NAVIGATE THE CHALLENGES THAT MAY COME UP IN MY LIFE.

SO, YOU KNOW, STARTING THERAPY IN -- IT WAS IMPORTANT FOR ME TO HAVE SOMEONE THAT WAS GOING TO SHOW ME NEW LIFE SKILLS, SHOW ME HOW TO APPROACH DIFFERENT PROBLEMS, SHOW ME HOW TO APPROACH DIFFERENT RELATIONSHIPS.

AND THAT’S WHAT MADE ME GET BACK TO THE PERSON THAT I WAS.

RAHSAAN: DR. SIMON, SAY A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHY THERE MAY BE RESISTANCE, PARTICULARLY WITH BLACK MEN, TO SEEK MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES, WHETHER IT IS COUNSELING, THERAPY, OR OTHER SUPPORT, AND WHAT THE BENEFITS ARE.

IN LIGHT OF WHAT SOME OF THE BROTHERS HAVE SHARED ABOUT THEIR OWN EXPERIENCES AND WHAT IS NEEDED IN OUR COMMUNITY.

DR. SIMON: AS WAS REFERENCED, THE NOTION OF UNDERREPRESENTATION IN MENTAL AND BEHAVIORAL HEALTH FIELDS, AND THEN THE HISTORICAL SYSTEM OF RACISM THAT EXISTED IN THIS COUNTRY, IT IS NOT SURPRISING THAT AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE, BUT PARTICULARLY MALES, ARE RETICENT TO ENGAGE WITH HEALTH CARE SYSTEMS, JUST BROADLY.

TO HIS POINT, BACK IN 1968, THERE WERE MORE AFRICAN-AMERICAN MEN IN MEDICAL SCHOOL WHO COULD BECOME PSYCHIATRISTS.

IF I AM A BLACK MALE THAT IS IN DORCHESTER, HYDE PARK SOMEWHERE, AND AND I AM THINKING I WANT TO ENGAGE WITH THERAPY, WELL, WHO IS IT THAT COMES TO YOUR MIND AS A THERAPIST?

IS IT A BLACK MALE?

IS IT EVEN A PERSON OF COLOR?

BECAUSE IN PART, YOU WANT TO HAVE SOME CULTURAL OR RACIAL CONCORDANCE AT TIMES WITH YOUR PROVIDER.

IF I PRESUME A PROVIDER IS NOT GOING TO UNDERSTAND ME, HOW I MIGHT END GOING TO GET COMFORTABLE WITH THAT PERSON TO ACTUALLY SHARE MY TRAUMAS?

THAT IS SOME OF THE BARRIERS.

TRUTHFULLY, GIVEN THE DISPARITY BETWEEN PEOPLE WHO PURSUE BEHAVIORAL CAREERS GETTING INTO GRADUATE SCHOOL, AT THE RATE WE ARE GOING, THERE WILL NEVER REALLY BE 1:1 RACIAL CONCORDANCE.

IT IS IMPORTANT FOR OUR ALLIES WHO DO NOT HAVE THE SAME HUE AS US TO BECOME DOUBLE ASKING QUESTIONS AND EMPATHIZING WITH OUR EXPERIENCES.

I TELL PEOPLE ALL THE TIME I MYSELF, YES, I AM A PSYCHIATRIST, BUT I ALSO GO TO THERAPY.

I DON’T JUST GO TO THERAPY WHEN I AM IN A CRISIS, WHICH IS OFTEN WHEN PEOPLE START TO THINK ABOUT, LET ME NOW ENGAGE.

THE REALITY IS YOU WANT TO START GOING WHEN YOU ARE NOT IN CRISIS, HOPEFULLY TO PREVENT THE CRISIS FROM HAPPENING.

TWO, THERE IS A WHOLE HOST OF THINGS JUST BEING A HUMAN BEING, BUT PARTICULARLY BEING A BLACK MAIL THAT IS BURDENSOME.

THAT IN AND OF ITSELF IS REASON ENOUGH TO TALK TO SOMEBODY WHO COULD HELP YOU UNPACK AND FROM YOUR PAST THAT YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW YOU ARE CARRYING.

I’LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.

MY WIFE, WHEN WE WERE DATING, SHE WOULD MAKE ME FOOD, AND I WOULD BE LIKE BUT DO YOU HAVE ANY SWEET BABY GRAZE?

I’M LIKE, YOU DIDN’T EVEN TASTE IT.

WHEN WE WENT HOME FOR A HOLIDAY, MY MOM, SHE PUT DOWN THE PLATE OF IT AND SHE’S LIKE, IS THAT WHITE?

YOU KNOW WHAT IT PROBABLY IS.

THERE IS THIS THING I HAVE BEEN DOING FROM MY CHILDHOOD NOW IMPACTING ME IN MY 20’S AT THE TIME.

I WAS NOT REALLY COGNIZANT OF IT.

THERE ARE 70 THINGS WE ARE CARRYING WITH US FROM OUR CHILDHOOD, FROM OUR UPBRINGING THAT WE MAY NOT REALIZE IS ACTUALLY IMPACTING HOW WE RESPOND WHEN SOMEBODY QUESTIONS US, OR WHY IS IT THAT I FEEL TENSE IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS?

THERAPY CAN BE A VERY GOOD OUTLET, AMONG OTHER THINGS, TO HELP PEOPLE NAVIGATE THAT.

I WANT TO BUILD ON -- RAHSAAN: I WANT TO BUILD ON THAT, AS WE WIND THIS DOWN, IF YOU CAN SAY SOMETHING BRIEFLY ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF MENTORSHIP AND ROLE MODELS, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT RELATES TO SEEKING HELP.

YOU CAN TALK ABOUT HOW MENTALS AND ROLE MODELS CAN GET YOU TO CONSIDER CAREER PATHWAYS OR GET YOU OUT OF TROUBLE, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE ROLE OF MENTORS AND ROLE MODELS IN GETTING YOU TO SEEK HELP?

WE ARE WINDING DOWN, SO IF EVERYONE COULD BRIEFLY -- DR. SIMON: MICHAEL JORDAN HAS A COACH.

LEBRON HAS A COACH.

A MENTOR CAN BE AT TIMES LIKE A COACH, SOMEONE TO HELP YOU GET TO WHERE YOU WANT TO GO IF YOU DON’T EXACTLY KNOW HOW TO GET THERE.

IT SOUNDS LIKE IN TERMS OF DREAM CATCHERS, THAT’S SOME OF THE ELEMENTS THEY ARE DOING.

THAT IS CRITICAL, THAT YOU HAVE SOMEBODY YOU CAN TRUST TO TALK TO, SHARE A BED, AND MAYBE THAT PERSON CAN HELP YOU NAVIGATE TOWARD -- SHARE A BIT, AND MAYBE THAT PERSON CAN HELP YOU NAVIGATE TOWARD SEEKING CARE.

ADRIAN: I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT WE TALK ABOUT MENTORS WHO WALK WITH A TALK.

THAT IS CRITICAL.

BUT CHANGE IT FROM MENTOR TO NAVIGATOR.

A NAVIGATOR IS NEEDED.

IT IS EVEN THE DIRECTION OF HOW LANGUAGE IS.

YOU LOOK AT MENTAL HEALTH HAS A STIGMA TO IT, SO THAT THERE IS JUST TALKING.

DO YOU WANT TO TALK TO SOMEBODY?

IT IS NOT JUST LANGUAGE, BUT MAKING SURE THEY WANT TO TALK.

RAHSAAN: GABRIEL, BRIEFLY, WHY IS IT IMPORTANT TO HAVE MENTORS TO HELP WITH MENTAL HEALTH?

GABRIEL: IF YOU ARE YOUNG, MOST LIKELY ARE MISUNDERSTOOD.

IT IS A VERY COMMON WORD TO DESCRIBE YOUNG PEOPLE.

WE ARE ALWAYS GOING TO NEED SOMEBODY TO TALK TO AND SHARE EVERYTHING THAT COULD BE UNDERSTOOD BY SOME PEOPLE.

IT IS MISUNDERSTOOD BY THE PEOPLE AROUND YOU.

JAMES: LISTEN, I’M NOT PERFECT, I JUST DIFFERENT.

I NEED SUPPORT, GUIDANCE.

NOT ONLY DO I GET THAT FROM A MENTOR, I GET THAT FROM MY WIFE, FOR ME JUST SEEING MY KIDS, AND ME HUMBLING MYSELF AT TIMES WHEN I NEED IT.

WE NEED SPACES WHERE BLACK M CAN -- WHERE BLACK MEN CAN BE THEIR AUTHENTIC SELF AND TALK ABOUT THE THINGS WE HAVE -- WE ARE DEALING WITH MENTALLY OR THINGS WE HAVE DEALT WITH IN THE PAST TO OVERCOME AND HEAL.

JONATHAN: I THINK COMMUNITY AND CONSENSUS IS ALSO IMPORTANT.

PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW THEY ARE NOT THE ONLY ONES DEALING WITH THESE ISSUES AND CIRCUMSTANCES.

I THINK FOR SO MANY PEOPLE, THEY OFTEN THINK THEY ARE THE ONLY ONE IN THE BOAT.

TO HAVE MENTORS OR NAVIGATORS TO SAY I HAVE BEEN THERE, I HAVE EXPERIENCED IT, YOU ARE NOT ALONE, YOU ARE NOT EXPERIENCING A UNIQUE SITUATION BUT NO MATTER HOW DIFFERENT OR UNIQUE IT MIGHT BE.

THERE ARE CONNECTIONS THAT MIGHT MAKE ONE FEEL SEEN, HEARD, AND AFFIRMED, AND KNOWING THAT IF I GOT THROUGH IT, YOU CAN GET THROUGH IT.

IF WE OVERCAME IT, YOU CAN OVERCOME IT.

THAT IS SO IMPORTANT, THAT TRACK RECORD OF OVERCOMING AND HAVING MENTORS AND NAVIGATORS TO REFLECT THAT.

RAHSAAN: WONDERFUL.

WELL, THAT IS THE END OF OUR DISCUSSION.

WE WILL HAVE MORE OF OUR CONVERSATION ON THE STATE OF BLACK BOYS AND MEN IN AN UPCOMING EPISODE.

THANK YOU TO ALL OF OUR GUESTS, AND THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.

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