>> YOU KNOW, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT BLACK STORYTELLING IN AMERICA, WE’RE NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT ART.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT POWER, AND HISTORICALLY, THAT POWER DIDN’T BELONG TO US.

FROM THE EARLY DAYS, STORIES ABOUT BLACK LIFE WERE TOLD BY PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT BLACK.

WHICH IS KIND OF LIKE HAVING SOMEONE WHO’S NEVER TASTED DIRT CHICKEN DO THE RECIPE.

THE LENS WAS CONTROLLED BY OUTSIDERS.

BLACKNESS BECAME A CHARACTER, A TRUCK, A SYMBOL, AND NOT THE GOOD KIND OF SYMBOL, LIKE BEYONCE AT THE SUPER BOWL.

MORE LIKE TRAGIC FIGURE OR COMIC RELIEF.

THESE WEREN’T STORIES FOR US, THEY WERE STORIES ABOUT US, PACKAGED FOR SOMEONE ELSE’S COMFORT.

THAT EVEN IN THOSE CONSTRAINTS, LIKE CREATORS STILL FOUND WAYS TO SPEAK.

THINK THE HARLEM RENAISSANCE, PEOPLE LIKE LANGSTON HUGHES AND ZORA NEAL HURSTON WRITING WITH VOICES THAT PRACTICALLY JUMPED OFF THE PAGE AND SAID, EXCUSE ME, I’M RECLAIMING MY HUMANITY.

THEY WERE JUST TELLING STORIES, THEY WERE FLIPPING THE SCRIPT.

STILL, THE QUESTION LINGERED.

WHO IS THE STORY FOR?

IS IT FOR US TO SEE OURSELVES FULLY, OR TO MAKE US PALATABLE TO EVERYONE ELSE?

FAST-FORWARD TO HOLLYWOOD’S GOLDEN AGE.

LACK ACTORS ARE MORE VISIBLE, BUT RARELY FREE.

ROLES WERE LIMITED TO SERVANTS, CARICATURES, OR THE TRAGIC BEST FRIEND WHO DIES FIRST.

AND THE AUDIENCE, DEFINITELY NOT BLACK AMERICA, IT WAS WHITE AMERICA, IT FELT LIKE A SITCOM LAUGH TRACK FOR A SYSTEMIC RACISM.

BUT HERE’S THE SHIPPED.

TODAY, LACK STORYTELLERS HELD THE PEN, THE CAMERA, THE MIGHT.

-- THE MIC.

TO RYAN KUGLER STANCE WITH THE DEVIL, THESE WORKS AREN’T ASKING FOR PERMISSION, THEY ARE SPEAKING TO US FIRST AND LETTING THE WORLD LISTEN IN.

THAT’S A POWER OF SELF-DEFINITION.

IN THE AUDIENCE ISN’T IMAGINED AS THEM, BUT AS US, COMPLEX, LAYERED, UNCONTAINED.

LACK STORYTELLING ISN’T A GENRE, IT’S A CONTINUUM, A FIGHT OR TRUE COMER FOR VOICE, FOR THE RIGHT TO BE SEEN BEYOND THE MARGINS.

AS WE LOOK AT WHERE WE’VE BEEN AND WHERE WE ARE GOING, THE QUESTION -- THE QUESTION ISN’T JUST WHO GETS TO DEPICT BLACKNESS, BUT WHO GETS TO DEFINE IT.

BECAUSE THE ANSWER TO THAT SHAPES EVERYTHING ON THE PAGE, ON THE SCREEN, AND IN THE HEARTS OF THOSE WATCHING.

WE KNOW THE PROBLEM.

NOW, LET’S GET TO THE ROOT OF IT.

I’M PARIS ALSTON.

PLAYWRIGHT ZORA HOWARD JOINS US TO TALK ABOUT HER GRIPPING NEW PLAY, A STORY THAT EXPLORES FRIENDSHIP, MASCULINITY, AND THE WEIGHT OF CHOICES IN A SINGLE, UNFORGETTABLE MOMENT.

IT HAPPENS WHEN THREE BROTHERS SHOOT THE BREEZE UNDER AN OLD, WIDE TREE.

THAT’S A PREMISE OF ZORA HOWARD’S LATEST WORK, MAKING ITS BOSTON DEBUT AT EMERSON’S PARAMOUNT CENTER.

IT’S A POETIC, HAUNTING MEDITATION ON MASCULINITY, BROTHERHOOD, AND VULNERABILITY.

ZORA JOINS US NOW.

SO NICE TO SEE YOU, THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

"HANG-TIME" OPENS WITH THREE BLACK MEN, THEY FIND THEMSELVES SUSPENDED UNDER THIS TREE IN A KIND OF TIMELESS SPACE.

WHAT DREW YOU TO THAT IMAGE, AND WHAT DOES IT SYMBOLIZE FOR YOU?

ZORA: THAT’S A GREAT QUESTION.

I THINK IT’S AN IMAGE OF VIOLENCE, THESE MEN ARE SUSPENDED UNDER THIS TREE, THEIR LIVES HAVEN’T BEEN FLATTENED, AND WHAT INSPIRED IT WAS THE STORY OF TWO BROTHERS BACK IN 2020 WHO HAD THEIR LIVES TAKEN, AND UPON COMING ACROSS THOSE NEW -- THE NEW STORY WHICH WAS VERY BRIEF, I COULDN’T STOP THINKING ABOUT THE LIVES THEY LEAD UP UNTIL THAT POINT, UP UNTIL THEIR UNTIMELY END.

AND HOW THERE WERE SO LITTLE COVERAGE ON THAT.

THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THEIR FAMILIES, THEIR DREAMS, ALL THE THINGS THAT MIGHT’VE BEEN AHEAD OF THEM, AND I WAS THINKING A LOT ABOUT THIS AGASSI OF RACIALIZED VIOLENCE IN THIS COUNTRY AND HOW IT IS PERPETUALLY WITH US.

PARIS: THAT STRANGE FRUIT.

ZORA: THAT STRANGE FRUIT, AND WANTING TO CENTER THE MEN AND THEIR LIVES AND NOT THEIR DEATH, FORCING US TO CONFRONT THE VIOLENCE AND SPEND TIME WITH IT, BUT NOT WITHOUT CONSIDERING THESE MEN AND THEIR FULL LIVES.

SO THAT’S REALLY THE INSPIRATION AND THE CONCEPT, AND THAT FIRST IMAGE THAT YOU LOCK IN ON.

PARIS: WHAT DOES THIS TEACH US ABOUT BLACK MALE IDENTITY AND BROTHERHOOD?

ZORA: I’M NOT SURE IF IT’S TRYING TO TEACH ANYTHING BUT JUST INVITE US TO LISTEN, TO BEAR WITNESS, TO PAY ATTENTION, TO REALLY LOOK AND CONSIDER.

I KEEP ON USING THE WORD CONSIDER, BECAUSE THESE MEN, THEIR BODIES ARE THE SET PIECE.

IT IS THE DESIGN OF THE PLAY.

SO TO LOOK CLOSELY AND SEE BROTHERS, LIKE YOU SAID, TO SEE FATHERS AND HUSBANDS AND GOOD FRIENDS, JUST TO SPEND TIME WITH THEM, MAYBE THAT’S THE TEACHING, TO BE OPEN TO SPENDING TIME WITH THESE BLACK MEN.

PARIS: WHAT KEEPS US FROM DOING THINGS WHEN THE INCIDENTS LIKE YOU DESCRIBE HAPPEN IN REAL LIFE?

ZORA: WE WANT TO LOOK AWAY.

WE DON’T WANT TO CONSIDER OUR OWN COMPLICITY IN THIS PERPETUAL VIOLENCE.

IT IS MORE COMFORTABLE, IT’S EASIER TO WALK PAST, KEEP ON WALKING BY.

BUT WE’RE DOING A DISSERVICE TO OURSELVES AND TO THESE MEN AND WOMEN AND CHILDREN, ALL WHO ARE VICTIMS OF RACIALIZED VIOLENCE IN THIS COUNTRY, AND IT REALLY OBSTRUCTS US FROM ANY PATH FORWARD.

OF HEALING THE VIOLENCE OR THE WOUNDS FROM THE VIOLENCE.

PARIS: OBVIOUSLY THIS IS A VERY VISCERAL IMAGE, WHOM WE THINK ABOUT HISTORIES LYNCHING OF BLACK MEN IN THE U.S.. PEOPLE SAY WHY ARE WE RESURFACING THIS IN ANY WAY?

ZORA: IT’S NOT RESURFACING.

A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, A MAN WAS FOUND HANGING IN MISSISSIPPI THAT’S NOT RESURFACING, THAT’S, YOU KNOW, WITHIN THIS MONTH.

AND IT IS A FOLLY FOR ANY OF US TO THINK THAT THIS IS SOMETHING OF OUR PAST, OF A DIFFERENT TIME, OR A SPECIFIC PART OF THIS COUNTRY.

THIS IS RIGHT NOW.

IT’S EXTREMELY URGENT AND FOR US TO THINK THAT IT IS NOT, THAT IS A GREAT DANGER.

PARIS: YOU’VE NOTED HOW YOUR INSPIRATION FOR THIS HAS COME FROM YOUR OWN RELATIONSHIPS WITH MEN IN YOUR FAMILY, YOUR BROTHERS, YOUR COUSINS, YOUR FATHER.

HOW DID YOU THINK ABOUT THEM WHEN YOU WERE WRITING THIS?

ZORA: I MEAN, THESE ARE THE MEN I GREW UP WITH.

THEIR VOICES, THEIR LAUGHTER IS ALWAYS WITH ME.

IT’S IN MY HEAD.

SO JUST BEING IN THE CORNER OF THE ROOM AND THEY THINK THEY’RE HAVING PRIVATE MOMENTS, HEARING SOME OF THE BANTER AND THE BACK-AND-FORTH IN THE WAY THEY TALK WHEN IT’S JUST MEN AMONGST MEN, HAVING THE PRIVILEGE OF BEING PRIVY TO SOME OF THAT AND THEN BEING INSPIRED TO FILL IN AS WELL.

THEY ARE VERY PRESENT IN THE PLAY, THAT I’M NOT NECESSARILY WRITING THESE CHARACTER SPECIFICALLY AFTER ANY ONE PERSON IN MY LIFE.

I THINK THEY ARE COMPOSITE CHARACTERS OF SO MANY OF THE MEN AND SOULS THAT I’VE KNOWN IN MY WALK.

PARIS: NOW, WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THEATER AND PEOPLE WHO MAY BE STEREOTYPICALLY GO TO THEATER, WE MAY NOT NECESSARILY SEE THAT BEING AS ACCESSIBLE TO BLACK MEN, BUT HOW DO YOU HOPE THAT THIS OPENS OR CHANGES THAT STEREOTYPE?

OR INVITES MORE BLACK MEN TO BE PART OF THIS ART?

ZORA: I ALWAYS THOUGHT ABOUT HANG-TIME BEING A THEATRICAL PIECE BUT ALSO SOMETHING THAT COULD HAPPEN ON A STREET CORNER OR IN THE CENTER OF A PART, ON A BASKETBALL COURT.

IT’S THE WORK OF THE INSTITUTIONS.

WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO IN MAKING SURE THE DOORS ARE OPEN AND ENCOURAGING FOLKS TO COME INSIDE.

BUT I HOPE ONCE THEY GET THROUGH THOSE DOORS THAT THEY SEE THEMSELVES, THAT THEY FEEL CARED FOR, CONSIDERED, THAT THERE IS A DEEPER APPRECIATION FOR THESE MEN WRITTEN INTO THE STORY, THE CHARACTERS OF THIS PIECE.

PARIS: HAD YOU HEARD OR SPOKEN WITH ANY BLACK MEN WHO SAW THIS, AND WHAT THEIR THOUGHTS WERE AFTERWARDS?

ZORA: ABSOLUTELY.

YES TO AUDIENCE MEMBERS, AND THERE’S BEEN A NUMBER OF ACTORS WHO HAVE COME THROUGH THE PIECE, BLACK MEN OF COURSE.

IT’S REALLY REWARDING TO SPEAK WITH THEM AND TO HEAR THE WORDS ON THEM, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY NOT WRITING IT, JUST HEARING IT HAPPENING IN MY HEAD, BUT TO SEE AND HEAR IT ANIMATED, WE KNOW THESE MEN.

THAT’S KIND OF THE FEEDBACK I GET.

THESE ARE THEIR UNCLES, THEIR BARBERS, THEY SEE THEMSELVES IN IT.

THAT IS THE BIGGEST REWARD, I THINK, WHEN I GET TO TALK TO FOLKS AFTER THE SHOW.

PARIS: SO YOU HAVE ALREADY TOURED WITH "HANG-TIME" NATIONAL.

IT’S MAKING ITS BOSTON DEBUT.

WHERE DO YOU SEE THIS GOING IN THE FUTURE?

ZORA: AS ME PLACES AS POSSIBLE.

IT IS AN AMERICAN PLAY, I SAY THAT OFTEN, THAT THIS LEGACY IS NOT SPECIFIC TO ONE PLACE OR TIME.

IT’S ALL TIME, ALL PLACES, PARTICULARLY IN THIS COUNTRY.

SO EVERY CITY THAT WOULD HAVE US, I’D LIKE US TO BE THERE.

INTERNATIONALLY, IF THEY WOULD HAVE US, I’D LIKE US TO BE THERE.

PARIS: HAVE YOU ALREADY TAKEN THIS TO THE SOUTH AT ALL?

ZORA: YES.

WE WOULD LOVE THAT TO HAPPEN, AND IT’S NOT FOR LACK OF TRYING.

IT IS STILL SOMETHING THAT WE NEED FOLKS TO SAY YES, AND TO BE OPEN TO HOSTING US AND MAKING THE PLAY, WORKING WITH US AND COLLABORATING WITH US TO MAKE THE PLAY HAPPEN.

THE SOUTH IS NOT OFF THE TABLE.

I WILL CONTINUE TO TRY TO GET THIS PLAY AS MANY PLACES AS WE CAN.

PARIS: AS A PLAYWRIGHT AND DIRECTOR, WHAT KIND OF STORIES DO YOU FEEL CALLED TO DO NEXT?

AND HOW MIGHT THE WORK THAT YOU’VE DONE ON "HANG-TIME" INFORMED THOSE STORIES?

ZORA: I JUST WANT TO CONTINUE TELLING THE TRUTH IN THE WAY THAT I CAN AND THE WAY I UNDERSTAND AND OBSERVE THE TRUTH.

I LOVE WORKING WITH RICH, DYNAMIC, COMPLICATED CHARACTERS.

THAT’S REALLY AT THE CENTER OF ALL THAT I DO, NO MATTER WHAT THE STORY IS, I’M USUALLY FIRST ON TO THE CHARACTER.

I MAY BLACK WOMAN -- I AM A BLACK WOMAN, TELLING BLACK STORIES.

PARIS: STORIES LIKE THE ONE YOU TELL, HOW DO THEY INFLUENCE AMERICAN THEATER AT LARGE?

ZORA: I THINK, YES, THERE IS THE CONCEPT, YES, THERE IS CONFRONTING WHAT IS UNCOMFORTABLE, THAT WE HAVE A HARD TIME CONFRONTING OVERDRESSED OR NOT CONFRONT THE STUFF, THE DIRTY STUFF, THE NASTY STUFF THAT IS NOT SO PLEASANT TO SIT WITH.

I THINK "HANG-TIME" IS TRYING SOMETHING SUBVERSIVE WITH FORM.

IT’S NOT YOUR TRADITIONAL STATE FORWARD PLAY -- STRAIGHTFORWARD PLAY.

IT’S A LOT MORE EXPERIMENTAL IN ITS FORM.

YOU WANT MORE ROOM FOR EXPERIMENTAL WORK BY PEOPLE OF COLOR.

YOU WANT MORE EXPERIMENTAL WORK TO BREAK DOWN TRADITIONS AND THE STRUCTURED SYSTEM THAT TELL US EXPRESSING HAS TO LOOK LIKE THIS, STORYTELLING HAS TO COME IN THIS FORMAT FOR IT TO BE POCKETABLE OR SELLABLE, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE.

THERE IS A TIME AND PLACE FOR THAT AS WELL BUT THERE’S OBVIOUSLY A TIME AND PLACE FOR STORIES LIKE "HANG TIME" AND WE JUST NEED TO MAKE MORE OF THEM.

KIND OF LIKE NUDGING OURSELVES IN THEIR, WE NEED TO PUSH THE SPACE OPEN WIDER BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE FOR ME, AT LEAST, AS THE THEATERGOERS ARE HIM THAT’S THE STUFF THAT MAKES ME WANT TO LEAN IN, LESS THE STUFF THAT MOVES ME AND CHANGES ME AND INSPIRES ME.

I KNOW I’M NOT THE ONLY ONE WRITING THE STORIES IN BUILDING THESE KINDS OF PLAYS.

WE JUST NEED TO MAKE MORE ROOM.

THERE’S ENOUGH ROOM FOR ALL OF US.

PARIS: ZORA, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SHARING YOUR VISION AND YOUR VOICE WITH US.

ZORA: MY PLEASURE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

I HOPE YOU COME AND SEE THE SHOW.

PARIS: THANKS SO MUCH FOR THAT POWERFUL CONVERSATION ABOUT "HANG TIME" AND THE WEIGHT EXPLORES LACK MASCULINITY AND FRIENDSHIP.

NOW WE TURN TO ANOTHER STORY ABOUT REPRESENTATION, THIS TIME BEHIND THE CAMERA.

FILM MAKERS JOIN US TO TALK ABOUT THEIR DOCUMENTARY, "CATHEDRALS," AND HOW DON, A BLACK MAN IS SHAPINGHIS.

THEY ARE CO-CREATORS OF THE POWERFUL DOCUMENTARY, "CATHEDRALS."

THEY ARE EXPLORING RACE, MEMORY, AND A BOSTON HOUSING AUTHORITY.

THINK ABOUT SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

THE ORIGINAL FILM WAS IN 1976.

IT WAS ABOUT THE CATHEDRAL HOUSING PROJECT IN BOSTON SOUTH.

WHAT DID YOU SET OUT TO ACCOMPLISH WITH THAT FIRST PROJECT?

>> THAT’S A GREAT QUESTION, BECAUSE A LOT OF WHAT WE SET OUT TO ACCOMPLISH WE HAD TO FIGURE OUT TOGETHER.

IT MEANT THAT WE HAD TO MEET AND SPEND A LOT OF TIME DISCUSSING THAT, SO THAT BECAME PART OF THE PROCESS.

A LOT OF THAT WAS DONE WHILE WE WERE WAITING FOR THE CAMERA TO ARRIVE, WE WERE TRYING TO RAISE FUNDS.

I DON’T KNOW WHAT IT WAS LIKE FORT DON TO HAVE ME, START OF -- FROM SORT OF A PRESTIGIOUS PREP SCHOOL COMING INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND SAYING I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE PROJECTS WITH YOU, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

IT’S NOT SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED EVERY DAY.

PARIS: WHAT WAS IT LIKE, DON?

>> I WAS ALREADY FILMING FOR THE HARRIET TUBMAN HOUSE AT THE TIME.

THEN WE WERE APPROACHED BY THE STAFF ABOUT HAVING COMING INTO THE COMMUNITY AND BEING INVOLVED IN WHAT WE WERE DOING AT THE TIME.

SO IT WAS A TIME WHEN TENSIONS WERE PRETTY HIGH IN BOSTON, YOU KNOW, AND IN THE "CATHEDRAL" PROJECT, IT WAS ONE OF THOSE PROJECTS WHERE WE DIDN’T REALLY FACE A LOT OF RACIAL DIVERSITY BECAUSE THE PROJECT WAS RACIALLY EQUAL AT THE TIME.

SO WE DIDN’T HAVE THAT PROBLEM, LIKE OTHER PROJECTS IN BOSTON HAD.

BUT THE IDEA OF SOME GUY COMING TO BE INVOLVED IN OUR COMMUNITY, MOST OF THE TIME THAT WAS A NO-NO, THAT WE WOULDN’T GO TO THAT, BECAUSE WE WERE TAUGHT THAT PEOPLE WANT TO COME TO YOUR COMMUNITY, LEARN HOW YOU LIVE, SEE HOW YOU LIVE.

BUT IN THIS CASE, BECAUSE IT CAME FROM A PREP SCHOOL, IT CAME THROUGH THE HARRIET TUBMAN HOUSE, I REMEMBER A GROUP OF GUYS AND MYSELF, WE WERE VERY WELCOMING TO HAVE SOMEONE COME WHO I DIDN’T KNOW WHAT WE WERE GOING TO DO AND HE DIDN’T KNOW WHAT WE WERE GOING TO DO.

BUT IT ENDED UP BEING ABOUT THIS 10-YEAR-OLD BOY, AND IT JUST WENT ON FROM THAT.

PARIS: AND THAT 10-YEAR-OLD BOY WAS KEVIN DATES, WHO HAD SUFFERED A BURN INJURY DUE TO SOME FAULTY HEATING PIPES IN HIS HOUSING UNIT.

AND SO KEVIN -- ILLEGAL HEATING PIPES, NOT FAULTY, BUT ILLEGAL.

SO KEVIN IS A CENTRAL FIGURE TO THE FIRST AND SECOND ITERATION OF THE FILM.

THEN, YOU HAD SOMEWHAT OF A JOURNEY TRYING TO GET BACK IN TOUCH WITH HIM.

TELL US ABOUT THAT.

>> WELL, IT WAS A VERY -- THESE ARE HARD TIMES, YOU KNOW, THE TIMES WE LIVE IN, I FEEL.

THEY HAVE BEEN GRADUALLY BECOMING MORE DIFFICULT, AND ABOUT FIVE YEARS AGO, I FOUND THIS FILM IN MY GARAGE.

ON A TAPE THAT WAS PROBABLY NOT FUNCTIONING ANYMORE.

AND IT WAS DURING THE COVID, AND IT WAS A TIME WHEN I ALSO WAS WATCHING THE FLOYD MURDER TRIAL ON TELEVISION, AND I THOUGHT, WO, THIS FILM HAS BEEN SITTING HERE, THIS COUNTRY IS NOT GETTING MUCH BETTER.

AND I TOOK A LOOK AT, HAD THE FILM RESTORED AND WATCHED IT, IT AND I FELT MORE POWERFUL -- IT FELT MORE POWERFUL THAN IT DID AT THE TIME.

I THOUGHT, WELL, IF I COULD TAKE THE RISK AT 16 YEARS OLD, I SHOULD BE ABLE TO TAKE THE RISK AT 60 YEARS OKLAHOMA TO TRY TO FIND OUT WHAT’S REALLY GOING ON IN THE COUNTRY, AND IN THIS PARTICULAR WAY, WITH THESE TWO GUYS IN MIND, IT WAS A VERY POSITIVE EXPERIENCE.

TRUST COMES FROM TIME, BUT IN THIS CASE, WE HAD LIKE A YEAR TOGETHER, AND THERE ARE 45 YEARS IN THE MIDDLE WHEN WE HAD NO CONTACT.

PARIS: WHY IS THAT?

WHY DID THOSE YEARS GO BY AND NEITHER OF YOU CONTACTED EACH OTHER?

>> THAT’S WHAT I WANTED TO KNOW.

I WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT WAS ABOUT.

I SEE IT ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, PEOPLE GETTING OLDER AND SORT OF ISOLATED INTO THEIR OWN PODS, I WILL SAY.

BUT IT IS RACE AND CLASS ORIENTED, AND PEOPLE JUST ARE TWO SEPARATE.

THIS COUNTRY NOW IS AT ITS HIGHEST LEVEL OF SEPARATION.

SO I FELT THAT I WANTED TO TRY TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT.

PARIS: DON, WHAT ABOUT YOU?

WHAT WAS THAT GAP?

WHAT EXPLAINS IT?

>> I WOULD HAVE TO SAY THAT, FOR ME, LIKE, I WAS INVOLVED IN A LOT OF COMMUNITY SERVICE.

SO THIS WAS ANOTHER ENTITY THAT HAD COME ALONG, AND I DID THIS THING WITH THIS GUY, AND IN THE BEGINNING THERE WAS LIKE FIVE OF US FROM THE PROJECT WHO HAD COME TOGETHER, AND BY THE END OF THE TIME, THERE WERE TWO OF US.

AT THE END OF THAT TIME IT WAS JUST ME AT THE END.

>> AND ME, BOTH OF US.

>> YEAH, AT THE END IT WAS DAN AND I. PARIS: BUT YOU WERE THE ONLY ONE FROM THE PROJECTS.

>> THAT HAD STUCK WITH IT.

THAT SEEMED TO BE SOMEWHAT PART OF MY BIGGER STORY, I’D LIKE TO SEE THINGS TO THE END, AND THIS ONE I DIDN’T SEE TO THE END, AFTER I WENT BACK TO ANDOVER PHILLIPS ACADEMY AND SHOW THE FILM TO THE STUDENTS THERE, AND I GOT A COPY AND MY WORLD BEGAN TO GO IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION, BUT I HAD ALWAYS HAD THIS THING IN MY HEART ABOUT, I NEED TO LET THIS KID, KEVIN, WHEN HE WAS 10 YEARS OH, SEE THIS RECORDING OF HIMSELF.

AND THAT DIDN’T HAPPEN, LIFE CHANGES BEGAN TO HAPPEN AND I MOVED AWAY FROM BOSTON A COUPLE OF YEARS LATER, I WENT TO WESTERN MASS AND I NEVER RETURNED BACK TO BOSTON.

AND SO COPY OF THE FILM, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HAPPENED TO IT, I LIVED AT MY MOTHERS HOUSE IN THE PROJECTS, MOVED ON, AND THAT WAS THAT.

>> AND KEVIN DIDN’T REMEMBER BEING FILMED, SO IT’S ON BOTH OF US THAT WE DIDN’T REALLY SHOW THE FILM TO HIM.

AND THAT COMES UP IN THE FILM.

IT BECOMES PART OF OUR JOURNEY TOGETHER.

PARIS: SO WE HAVE A CLIP OF THE MOMENT THAT YOU DO COME ACROSS KEVIN, AND HERE’S THE CONVERSATION THAT YOU TWO HAVE.

>> I’VE BEEN 100% FOR SIX YEARS, I’M SORRY.

WHAT’S UP THERE, BIG GUY?

>> 100% MEANS 100%.

OH, I SEE.

>> I RETIRED.

I KNOW I DID A LOT OF THINGS, BEEN THROUGH A LOT.

WITHOUT HIM I WOULDN’T HAVE SURVIVED TODAY, I WOULDN’T BE SITTING HERE.

>> THE SEIZURES COME FROM JUST BEING STRESSED OUT?

>> IS FROM TRAUMA, IN THE MILITARY, STRESS, LIKE YOU SAID, THE MURDER.

IT AFFECTS A PERSON A LOT.

>> I’M SURE.

>> MENTALLY, EMOTIONALLY.

BECAUSE IT SCARRED ME FOR LIFE.

>> I UNDERSTAND.

>> NO, YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND.

[LAUGHTER] YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND.

I DISLIKE WHEN A PERSON SAYS THEY UNDERSTAND.

PARIS: SO, DAN, I WAS SO CURIOUS WHEN I SAW THAT CLIP, WHAT THAT MOMENT WAS LIKE FOR YOU, WITH KEVIN VERY STRAIGHTFORWARD, LIKE, NO, YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND.

IN OF COURSE YOU KNOW, YOU’VE HAD THAT MOMENT WHY YOU WERE SHOWING HIM YOU COULD EMPATHIZE.

I DID THAT MOMENT TEACH YOU ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN FILMMAKER AND SUBJECT?

>> IT TAUGHT ME THAT YOU HAVE TO LISTEN, AND ALSO THAT IN THE FILM BECOMES PART OF, TO SAY THIS, WHEN YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH SOMEONE, YOU GET TO -- AND KEVIN KNOWS, AND I DO, MAKE A SECOND DRAFT OF WHAT YOU SAID.

PEOPLE ARE SO AFRAID RIGHT NOW TO TALK TO EACH OTHER AT ALL.

THEY ARE AFRAID TO REVEAL THEIR OWN FEELINGS BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY DON’T WANT TO HAVE AN ARGUMENT, OR THEY JUST KNOW ALREADY WHAT THEY ARE FEELING.

BUT THE TRUTH IS, WHEN YOU ASK SOMEONE A QUESTION, YOU HAVE TO BE PREPARED TO HEAR THE ANSWER.

BUT THEN, AND IT IS SAID IN THE FILM, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO SAY IT AGAIN, AND HAVE LEARNED WHY YOU MIGHT HAVE HURT THAT PERSON OR MISUNDERSTOOD THEM OR NOT BEEN CLEAR.

AND THAT’S THE WAY PEOPLE CAN MAKE PROGRESS, LEARNING ABOUT WHAT ANOTHER PERSON IS LIKE.

PARIS: AND THERE IS A BIT OF REDEMPTION BECAUSE YOU COME TO THE POINT OF COMPENSATING KEVIN FOR HIS CONTRIBUTION TO THE FILM.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THAT’S EXTREMELY IMPORTANT, WE ACTUALLY ALL OWN THE FILM TOGETHER, AND IN THIS DAY AND AGE, OWNING A FILM IS DIFFERENT THAN IT USED TO BE.

PARIS: JUST ASK RYAN KUGLER.

[LAUGHTER] >> IT’S A VERY IMPORTANT IDEA OF BEING ABLE TO.

BUT IT -- IT SHOULDN’T STOP US FROM TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT ANOTHER PERSON IS LIKE.

THE OWNERSHIP OF A STORY IS IMPORTANT, BUT IT’S ALSO IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND, I FEEL, LIKE WE CAN TALK TOGETHER.

I CAME BACK AND WE WENT THROUGH A LOT, SEPARATELY FOR 40 YEARS, AND YET IT WAS ALMOST LIKE IF I CAN SAY, VERY CLOSE SINCE THEN.

IT’S TAKING THE RISK, AND BOTH OF US HAVE TAKEN RISKS HERE, TO REALIZE THAT YOU CAN LEARN FROM ANOTHER PERSON STORY EVEN IF YOU DON’T SHARE ALL THEIR HISTORY.

AND IT’S WORTH DOING.

PARIS: DON AND DAN, I WANT TO THANK BOTH OF YOU FOR HAVING THIS CONVERSATION HERE WITH ME AND OUR "ROOTED" AUDIENCE, AND I’M EXCITED TO SEE WHERE THINGS GO.

A HUGE THANKS TO ZORA, DON AND DAN FOR SHARING THEIR INCREDIBLE STORIES WITH US TODAY.

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