>> Braude: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," WITH PROTESTS RAGING ALL OVER IRAN-- OVER THE DEATH OF A YOUNG WOMAN AFTER SHE WAS TAKEN INTO POLICE CUSTODY FOR WEARING A HEADSCARF IMPROPERLY-- COULD THIS BE A GAME-CHANGER?

TWO EXPERTS IN IRANIAN POLICY AND PROTEST, INCLUDING A VICTIM OF THE IRANIAN MORALITY POLICE HERSELF, JOIN ME.

THEN, DEBATING THE POSSIBLE RETURN OF HAPPY HOUR TO MASSACHUSETTS.

STATE SENATOR LYDIA EDWARDS AND RESTAURATEUR PHILIP FRATTAROLI WILL LAY OUT THE CASES WHY DISCOUNTED DRINKS SHOULD OR SHOULDN'T BE AN OPTION AFTER A 38-YEAR STATEWIDE BAN.

>> Braude: DESPITE MAJOR GOVERNMENT CRACKDOWNS IN IRAN, MASS PROTESTS ARE WELL INTO THEIR SECOND WEEK, OVER THE DEATH OF 22-YEAR-OLD MAHSA AMINI.

SO WITH RUMORS OF THE SUPREME LEADER'S FAILING HEALTH, COULD THIS BE A TRUE TURNING POINT FOR THE NATION?

AMINI DIED IN A NORTHERN TEHRAN HOSPITAL EARLIER THIS MONTH, THREE DAYS AFTER BEING TAKEN INTO CUSTODY BY THE SO-CALLED "MORALITY POLICE," WHO ACCUSED HER OF VIOLATING DRESS CODE.

THE POLICE STORY?

SHE SUFFERED A HEART ATTACK FROM A PRE-EXISTING CONDITION.

BUT HER FAMILY AND CLEARLY MANY OTHERS HAVE SERIOUS QUESTIONS.

IN RESPONSE TO THE PROTESTS-- AND WIDESPREAD IMAGES BEING SHARED OF WOMEN REMOVING AND BURNING THEIR HIJABS AND HEADSCARVES-- IRAN'S GOVERNMENT HAS BLOCKED INTERNET ACCESS AND SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

NEARLY 80 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED, AND HUNDREDS HAVE BEEN ARRESTED, INCLUDING SEVERAL JOURNALISTS, SINCE PROTESTS BEGAN.

WILL THEY LEAD TO REAL CHANGE?

I'M JOINED BY TARA SONENSHINE, FORMER UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR PUBLIC DIPLOMACY UNDER BARACK OBAMA, WHO'S NOW A PROFESSOR OF PRACTICE AT THE FLETCHER SCHOOL AT TUFTS UNIVERSITY; AND PARDIS MAHDAVI, PROVOST OF THE UNIVERSITY OF MONTANA AND THE AUTHOR OF "PASSIONATE UPRISINGS: IRAN'S SEXUAL REVOLUTION."

PARDON PARDIS, TARA, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE, I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>> Braude: TARA, IF I CAN START WITH YOU, IS THE DEATH OF AMINI THE GAME CHANGER L IT BE LOOKED LIKE THE DEATH OF THAT STREET VENDER IN TUN IS QUAIA WHO SELF-EMULAT ED THAT LED TO THE ARAB SPRINGS.

>> WE HOPE SO.

BUT THIS HAS BEEN A 40 YEAR STRUGGLE AND WE KNOW THE UPS AND DOWNS OF THESE UPRISING AND THEN HARSH, HARSH PUNISHMENT.

I THINK WHAT MAY BE DIFFERENT HERE IS THAT THIS IS NOT JUST WOMEN.

THESE ARE MERCH AND BOYS COMING OUT.

IT'S A A GENERATIONAL STRUGGLE.

AND WE HAVE AN 83 YEAR OLD AYATOLLAH AND A VERY CONSERVATIVE PRESIDENT.

SO THIS IS GOING TO BE HARD.

BUT I DO THINK THERE IS SOME MOMENTUM HERE.

AND ST HAS LASTED A BIT LONGER THAN EVEN THE BEST EXPERTS THOUGHT IT WOULD.

>> Braude: PARDIS S THIS DIFFERENT THIS TIME?

>> I THINK IT IS DIFFERENT THIS TIME.

I THINK YOU KNOW AS TARA MENTIONED, WHAT YOU ARE SEEING TODAY IS A MUCH LARGER AND MORE WIDE SPREAD COALITION, IN MORE THAN 55 DIFFERENT CITIES.

YOU ARE SEEING YOUNG AND OLD.

CERTAINLY THERE IS LEAD BY THE YOUTH MOVEMENT, BOTH YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN.

BUT YOU'RE ALSO SEEING A BREAKING DOWN OF THE URBAN RURAL DIVIDE.

YOU ARE SEEING INCREASINGLY NUMBERS OF FRUSTRATED IRANIANS THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY SPEAKING UP AND OUT AGAINST THE REGIME.

>> Braude: BUT TARA, WHY IS IT DIFFERENT?

I UNDERSTAND YOU ARE BOTH DESCRIBING OBJECTIVELY HOW IT IS DIFFERENT OR HOW ST MORE INCLUSIVE, MORE WIDE SPREAD.

BUT WHY IS IT THAT WAY THIS TIME.

JUST MAD AS HELL AND I CAN'T TAKE IT ANY MORE KIND OF THING?

>> WELL, SOCIAL MEDIA PLAYS A ROLE.

THERE HAS BEEN REALLY AN ATTEMPT TO BLACK OUT ANY INFORMATION.

I THINK MORE INFORMATION IS SEEPING THROUGH TO PEOPLE'S CELL PHONES AND WORD OF MOUTH.

I THINK ALSO WE'RE IN A TIME IN THE WORLD WHERE WOMEN AND GIRLS, WE HAVE BEEN IN THIS STRUGGLE FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

I THINK THERE IS A SENSE OF FIGHTING FOR YOUR RIGHTS AND EMPOWERMENT HERE.

AGAIN THOUGH WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL.

THE IRANIAN PRESIDENT IS GOING TO GO ON TELEVISION AND IS GOING TO THREATEN DECISIVE ACTION AND GOING TO MAKE IT VERY CLEAR THAT THOSE WHO CONTINUE THIS WILL BE MET WITH FORCE.

THERE WILL BE PROGOVERNMENT RALLIES, SO THIS IS FAR FROM OVER BUT OUR VOICES NOW, INSIDE AND OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY REALLY MATTER.

>> Braude: I WANT TO TALK ABOUT OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY IN A MINUTE.

BUT PARDIS, DESCRIBE TO THE PEOPLE WHAT THE MORALITY POLICE, WHO THEY ARE.

AND YOU WOULD OBVIOUSLY KNOW BECAUSE AS I READ IN THE "WASHINGTON POST," YOU HAD FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE AS A VICTIM OF THE MORALITY POLICE.

WHO ARE THEY?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

SO THE MORALITY POLICE ARE AN ARM OF THE POLICE THAT WERE CREATED WHEN THE ISLAMIST REGIME CAME TO POWER AFTER THE IRANIAN REVOLUTION.

THEY'RE CHARGED TECHNICALLY IS TO COMMIT AND ENSURE RIGHT AND FORBID WRONG.

THAT IS THE CHARGE THAT DE DEFINED FOR THEM.

THEIR SCOPE INCLUDES POLICING MORAL BEHAVIORS, GIVEN THAT THE REGIME, THE ISLAMIST REGIME CAME TO POWER UNDER A FABRIC OF MORALITY.

GEURG THE-- DURING THE REVOLUTION THEY CAME TO POWER BY-- ON A PLATFORM THAT WAS OPPOSED TO WHAT THEY WERE CALLING WEST-TOXICATION OR THE LOOSE MORALS OF THE WEST.

SO AN ENTIRE ARM OF THE POLICE WAS CREATED TO WALK THE STREETS OF IRAN AND ON OWE KAITION RAISE PARTIES ENSURING THAT IRANIAN CITIZENS WERE EXORTING WITH PROPER MORALITY RULES AS DEFINED BY, FOR EXAMPLE, HEADSCARVES THAT REVEALED ONLY WHAT IS CALLED THE OVAL PART OF THE FACE, AND OTHER MORAL RULES.

>> Braude: PARDIS, BEFORE WE LEAVE THIS, YOU WERE TEACHING A CLASS IN WHAT, SEXUAL POLITICS IN TEHRAN, 15 YEARS AGO.

YOU CAN SHARE BRIEFLY WHAT WITH PEOPLE WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU.

>> SO I WAS ACTUALLY GIVING A LECTURE ON MY BOOK WHICH WAS LOOKING AT WHAT YOUNG PEOPLE TERMED A SEXUAL REVOLUTION IN IRAN.

AND 13 MINUTES INTO MY LECTURE I WAS TAKEN OFF STAGE, PULLED OFF STAGE BY THE MORALITY POLICE AND TAKEN IN AND OF COURSE, AS I WROTE IN MY "WASHINGTON POST" PIECE, SUFFERED AT THE HANDS OF THEIR BRUTALITY AS WELL.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW TARA, IN THIS PIECE THAT YOUR COLLEAGUE HERE, PARDIS WROTE, SHE QUOTES WHAT, A SAYING ON WALLS THROUGHOUT IRAN FROM AYATOLLAH KHOMENI WHICH SAID THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC IS NOT ABOUT FUN T IS ABOUT MORALITY.

THERE IS NO FUN TO BE WHAT HAD IN THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN.

FOR WOMEN IN PARTICULAR, FUN IS A VERY DANGEROUS THING IN IRAN, THROW?

>> YES, I WAS IN IRAN IN THE 1980S WHEN I WAS WITH ABC NEWS, NIGHTLINE.

AND I CAME IN FULL SHIDOR, I WAS VERY CAREFUL.

IT IS A FEAR-INSPIRING ATMOSPHERE.

FUN IS SO FAR FROM THE REALITY OF DAILY LIFE, WHEN PEOPLE ARE JUST HELD TO ACCOUNT FOR WHAT YOU WEAR IN THE MORNING, YOUR BLUE SUIT, YOUR TIE, YOUR SHIRT.

THAT WILL DEFINE YOUR FREEDOM TO MOVE AROUND.

YOUR HAIR, YOUR BANGS.

IT IS SO HARD FOR WOMEN IN 2022 TO EVEN IMAGINE THAT THIS COULD BE A FORM, REALLY, OF HOLDING PEOPLE HOSTAGE.

>> Braude: SO TARA, STAY WITHING YOU.

YOU WROTE IN YOUR PIECE IN THE GLOBE THAT THE WEST IS HISTORICALLY BEEN SLOW TO REACT WHEN IRANIAN PEOPLE HAVE THE COURAGE TO STAND UP TO THIS KIND OF SICKNESS.

PROVIDING SPACE FOR CRACKDOWNS, OBVIOUSLY.

WE KNOW THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES HAS SPOKEN OUT IN SUPPORT OF THE PROTEST.

I THINK IT WAS YESTERDAY THAT SECRETARY OF STATE BLINKEN SAID THAT HE WOULD WORK TO ENSURE THAT, I GUESS WHAT HE CALLED TECHNICAL OR TECHNOLOGICAL HELP, I ASSUME HE MEANS ACCESS TO THE INTERNET, WOULD BE PROVIDED.

I ASSUME THOSE ARE GOOD THINGS BY YOUR STANDARD.

ARE THEY ENOUGH?

>> THEY'RE IMPROVEMENTS.

IN 2009 I THINK MANY OF US WERE DISAPPOINTED WHEN THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY AGAIN TO PROVIDE AID AND COMFORT TO PROTESTORS.

THIS TIME I THINK WE WILL SEE MORE SANCTIONS.

AND SARCHTIONS DO BITE IN IRAN.

THEY DO MOST DEFINITELY CREATE ECONOMIC DIFFICULTIES.

I ALSO THINK THAT CELL TECHNOLOGY SUPPORT WILL ENABLE THE FREE FLOW OF INFORMATION.

AND IF T IS A CAT AND MOUSE GAME WITH THE INTERNET.

PEOPLE GET ON, THEY GET TAKEN OFF.

THEY GET ON, THEY GET OFF.

AND WE NEED TO LENGTHEN THE AMOUNT OF TIME THEY HAVE TO BE ON THE CELL PHONES, AND FIND EACH OTHER.

>> Braude: PARDIS, WHAT ELSE DO YOU THINK THE UNITED STATES AND PEOPLE BELIEVE IN FREEDOM SHOULD BE DOING TO SUPPORT THE PROTESTORS?

>> I THINK THAT ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS THAT ALSO MAKES IT DIFFERENT THIS TIME IS I THINK PEOPLE NEED TO REALIZE THIS IS NOT JUST A FEMINIST ISSUE, OR NOT JUST AN ISSUE ABOUT WOMEN OR WOMEN AND GIRLS.

THIS IS A HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUE.

I THINK THAT ONE OF THE THINGS FOLKS ARE NOW SEEING IS THAT WHETHER YOU A FEMINIST OR NOT, WHETHER YOU FALL INTO THAT SILLO HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, THIS IS A MUCH LARGER ISSUE ABOUT HUMAN RIGHTS.

AND FREEDOM.

AND WE SEE THAT IN THE POWERFUL CHANTS THAT FOLKS ARE SCREAMING ON THE STREETS OF IRAN TODAY.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW TARA, YOU WERE, AND ONE OF YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES AS UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE WAS PUBLIC AFFAIRS.

SO THE FOLLOWING IS RIGHT UP YOUR ALLEY.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HEARD NBR YESTERDAY INTERVIEWING IRAN'S FOREIGN MINISTER.

AND HE ASKED IF HE FELT THE PROTESTORS HAD LEGITIMATE REASONS FOR PROTEST, HERE IS WHAT THE IRANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER SAID IN RESPONSE.

>> SOMETHING HAPPENED TO HER THAT MADE ALL OF US VERY SAD.

SIMILAR INCIDENTS HAPPEN ALL AROUND THE WORLD AROUND THE WORLD, LIKE TONS OF EXAMPLES SIMILAR TO THAT IN THE UNITED STATES OR IN THE U.K." >> Braude: WHAT IS THE APPROPRIATE RESPONSE TO THAT FOR THE U.S. TO HAVE CREDIBILITY IN THIS MATTER.

>> THE APPROPRIATE RESPONSE IS NO MORAL EQUIVALENT.

WHAT IS HAPPENING IN IRAN IS UNLIKE ANYTHING THAT HAPPENS IN THE WEST.

I THINK WHAT IT SHOWS IS IRAN'S CRISIS OF LEGITIMACY.

THAT THEY HAVE TO NOW TRY TO WALK BACK A BIT, TRY TO EQUATE IRAN'S BEHAVIOR WITH THE U.K. OR THE U.S.

THIS IS THE MOMENT THAT WOMEN AROUND THE WORLD, MEN, BOYS, YOUR PROGRAMS AND OTHERS HAVE TO STAY AT THIS DAY IN AND DAY OUT.

THE MESSAGING, THE WORDS MATTER, THE NARRATIVE MATTERS.

WE JUST CANNOT LOOK SIDEWAYS OR LOOK AWAY.

>> Braude: ONE LAST THING, PARDIS, AS I'M SURE YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SURE IF EVERYONE WATCHING KNOWS, THE UNITED STATES HAS TRIED TO GET THE IRAN NUCLEAR GEEL DEAL BACK IN TO PLAY.

TALKS HAVE BROKE OFF BUT THERE IS STILL A DESIRE ON THE PART OF THE UNITED STATES TO REIMPOSE THAT AGREEMENT OR RENEGOTIATE THAT AGREEMENT.

IS CONTINUING THAT NEGOTIATION A HELP OR A HINDRANCE TO THE EFFORTS OF PEOPLE IN THE STREETS OF IRAN?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THE ISSUE IS GOING TO BE THIS QUESTION OF THE LEGITIMACY OF THE REGIME, RIGHT.

AND SO HAVING THE UNITED STATES CONTINUE TO ENGAGE IN THE REGIME, YOU KNOW, DOES THAT AS TARA SAID A MOMENT EARLIER, DOES THAT LEGITIMIZE THEN THE REGIME?

ARE THERE WAYS IN WHICH THE UNITED STATES CAN SUPPORT THE MORE ORGANIC MOVEMENTS THAT WE'RE NOW SEEING IN THE STREETS.

I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO TAKE A GOOD HARD LOOK AT.

AT THE SAME TIME AS I HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THE TALKS AROUND THE U.S. IRAN NUCLEAR DEAL.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE SEEING AROUND THE COUNTRY HERE IS THAT THE DEAL IS APPEARING QUITE DIFFERENT THAN, YOU KNOW, WHEN JOHN KERRY WAS INITIALLY BROKERING IT, SO WE NEED TO TAKE A HARD LOOK AT WHY, WHY THE DEAL HAS CHANGED SO SIGNIFICANTLY IN THESE PAST FEW YEARS.

>> Braude: TARA, YOU CAN TAKE THE LAST 15 SECONDS AND WEIGH IN ON THAT TOO, PLEASE.

>> YES, I MEAN DURING THE TIME WHEN WE HAVE-- WE STILL MANAGED TO NEGOTIATE ARMS CONTROL WITH THE SOVIETS.

AND WE CORDONED OFF, WE COMPARTMENTALIZED.

WE DID WHAT WE COULD THOUGH TO KEEP OUR EYES ON THE HUMAN RIGHTS.

AND YES, WE WILL NEGOTIATE NUCLEAR TREATEES, AND WE WILL DO ECONOMIC SANCTIONS.

BUT AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME WE STAND WITH THE PEOPLE OF IRAN AND THEIR EXPRESSION OF FRUSTRATION, RAGE AND RESENTMENT AT WHAT HAS BEEN FOR DECADES OF UNFAIR TREATMENT.

>> Braude: TARA SONENSHINE, PARDIS MAHDAVI, THANK YOU BOTH FOR YOUR TIME AND YOUR WORK, WE REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME SINCE THE HAPPY HOUR BAN WAS ENACTED IN MASSACHUSETTS 38 YEARS AGO, BY MY GUEST OF LAST WEEK, FORMER GOVERNOR DUKAKIS, AFTER A STRING OF DEADLY DRUNK DRIVING ACCIDENTS.

THE DEBATE OVER DISCOUNTED DRINKS RETURNING TO THE STATE IS KICKING UP AGAIN, AND WHILE GOVERNOR CHARLIE BAKER IS THROWING COLD WATER ON THE IDEA, MANY BAR AND RESTAURANT PATRONS ARE STILL PUSHING FOR THE CHANGE.

THE SENATE PASSED THE PLAN IN AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BILL IN JULY WITH LANGUAGE THAT WOULD LET CITIES AND TOWNS OPT IN TO ALLOWING DISCOUNTED DRINK SPECIALS.

THE HOUSE HAS YET TO WEIGH IN.

BUT AS FOR THE GOVERNOR?

WELL, HERE'S WHAT HE TOLD US ON "BOSTON PUBLIC RADIO" ON MONDAY.

>> MAYBE THIS IS JUST ME BEING AN OLD FUDDY-DUDDY, BUT I THINK MOST PLACES DO JUST FINE BASED ON THE CURRENT RULES AS THEY ARE.

THE SIMPLE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS PEOPLE GOT OVERSERVED A LOT IN THE OLD DAYS, AND I BELIEVE PEOPLE WILL CONTINUE TO GET OVERSERVED.

THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES ASSOCIATED WITH THAT, AND THE CONSEQUENCES IN MANY CASES I DON'T THINK JUSTIFY OR ARE WORTH THE BENEFIT THAT'S ASSOCIATED WITH, YOU KNOW, 25 CENT DRINKS.

>> Braude: YOU'D VETO THIS THING RIGHT IF IT GETS TO YOU?

>> MOST LIKELY, YEAH.

>> Braude: I'M JOINED BY STATE SENATOR LYDIA EDWARDS, WHO CO-SPONSORED THE HAPPY HOUR AMENDMENT AND PHILIP FRATTAROLI, OWNER OF DUCALI, LUCIA RISTORANTE AND CUNARD TAVERN.

PHIL, SENATOR, GOOD TO SEE YOU BOTH, THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANKS FOR THE OPPORTUNITY.

>> THANKS.

>> Braude: PHIL, STARTING WITH YOU, MANY PEOPLE, INCLUDING ME, JUST AUTOMATICALLY ASSUME, DURING COVID, THAT ALL RESTAURANTS WOULD BE ALL IN TO THIS.

YOU ARE NOTES,-- YOU ARE NOT, WHY?

>> WELL, WE JUST FEEL LIKE THE OVERCONSUMPTION OF ALCOHOL IS-- PI BUTTING THIS ON RESTAURANTS TO DO A O KOPT THIS OR LOSE OUT ON APPROXIMATE POTENTIAL ECONOMIC SURGE, WE JUST FEEL LIKE IT'S NOT NECESSARY, THIS IS A DINOSAUR, A RELIC OF THE PAST.

AND TO CALL IT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT FOR US IN THE INFLATIONARY PERIOD AND THE CRISIS WE ARE IN RIGHT NOW AFTER TWO YEARS OF THE PANDEMIC, WE JUST THINK THERE ARE OTHER THINGS THAT THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE COULD BE DOING TO HELP US.

AND ONE OF THOSE THINGS IS REFORMING THE REGULATIONS AROUND OUTDOOR DINING.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WAS GREAT THAT CAME OUT OF THE PANDEMIC, AND STANDS TO GO AWAY AS SOON AS SOME OF THESE EXECUTIVE ORDERS END NEXT YEAR.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW, MY UNDERSTANDING, SENATOR, IS FROM THE MASS RESTAURANT ASSOCIATION, THAT PHIL IS NOT AN OUTLIAR.

THAT THEMAJORITY OF BAR AND RESTAURANT OWNERS AGREE WITH HIS POSITION.

WHY DID YOU SPONSOR THIS?

>> BECAUSE I THINK A MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN MASSACHUSETTS WANT AN OPTION AND WANT TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THIS AS SOMETHING FUN TO DO.

I THINK YOU KNOW, THE FACT IS I AM SPONSORING AN OPPORTUNITY FOR CITIES AND TOWNS TO MAKE UP THEIR OWN MIND.

SO IF THIS DOESN'T WORK IN BOSTON, IF THIS DOESN'T WORK IN CAMBRIDGE T MAY WORK IN FITCHBURG OR PLACES WHERE THERE MAY NOT BE AS ECONOMICICALLY AS ADVANCED OR AS BENEFITED AS SOME OF OUR RESTAURANTS IN BOSTON.

THIS IS A STATEWIDE BAN THAT I THINK NEEDS TO BE BROKEN UP.

AND I THINK LOCALLY, CITIES AND TOWNS CAN COME UP WITH THEIR OWN VERSION OF WHAT MAKES SENSE FOR HAPPY HOUR OR DECLINE TO DO IT.

WE DID THE EXACT SAME THING WHEN IT CAME TO CANNABIS.

THERE WERE SOME TOWNS THAT SAID WE DON'T WANT IT.

AND THEY DON'T HAVE IT.

>> Braude: WELL, HOW ABOUT THAT RESPONSE, PHIL, I TAKE IT ONE STEP FURTHER.

NOT ONLY IS THERE AN OPTION FOR A CITY OR TOWN NOT TO OPT IN, BUT OBVIOUSLY EVEN IF BOSTON, FOR EXAMPLE, OPTED IN, IT DOESN'T REQUIRE YOU TO DO ANYTHING.

YOU CAN CONTINUE TO NOT HAVE HAPPY HOUR.

SO WHY NOT GIVE OTHER RESTAURANTS IN YOUR COMMUNITY THE OPTION TO DO WHAT THEY THINK MIGHT BE BEST FOR THEM?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT THIS, I MEAN, YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE STATE AS A WHOLE.

AND BOSTON AND CAMBRIDGE, THOSE ARE COMMUNITIES WHERE PEOPLE ARE LESS LIKELY TO BE DRIVING.

THEY ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE TAKING PUBLIC TRANSIT.

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT FITCHBURG AND OTHER CITIES AND TOWNS WHERE THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE DRIVING, LET'S LOOK AT THE PUBLIC SAFETY ASPECT OF THIS.

WE ARE ENCOURAGING THEM TO DRINK AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE AS FAST AS POSSIBLE, AND SENDS THEM OUT ON THE ROAD.

WHO DOES THAT BENEFIT.

AND IF A RESTAURANT IS AROUND ME OR ALL THE RESTAURANTS AROUND ME DECIDE THEY WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS AND THEY START GIVING OUT ALCOHOL FOR PENNIES ON THE DOLLAR, I'M GOING TO BE AT A DISADVANTAGE RELATIVE TO THOSE PEOPLE.

ESPECIALLY IN A STAFFING CRISIS THAT WE ARE IN.

MY BARTENDERS, THEY ARE NOT AS CONCERNED ABOUT THE IMPACT ON THEBUSINESS.

THEY WANT TO SEE THAT TIP MONEY COME INTO THEIR POCKETS.

SO I MIGHT LOSE OUT ON STAVMENT I MIGHT LOSE OUT ON OPPORTUNITIES THAT I WOULDN'T OTHERWISE HAVE BECAUSE I TOOK A STAND ON SOMETHING THAT ISN'T REALLY GOOD FOR ANYBODY EXCEPT FOR THE CUSTOMER LOOKING TO SAVE A COUPLE OF BUCKS AND GET BLASTED.

>> Braude: PHIL, I WANT TO STAY WITH YOU FOR ONE SECOND THOUGH.

I DON'T KNOW IF SENATOR EDWARDS DID THIS.

BUT OTHER SPONSORS OF THE BIG,-- BILL, OR COLLEAGUES AND SUPPORTERS IN THE LEGISLATURE TALKED ABOUT WHEN GOVERNOR DUKAKIS BANNED THIS, THERE WAS NO SUCH THING AS RIDE SHARING, NO UBER AND LYFT OPTION, I HAVE TO SAY FROM MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, THE ATTITUDE I HAD ABOUT DRUNK DRIVING 38 YEARS AGO OR DRIVING AT LEAST AFTER I HAD A DRINK IS DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT THANKS TO MOTHERS AGAINST DRUNK DRIECHING, THANKS TO PEOPLE LIKE RON WHO LOBBIES FOR MELANIE'S LAW WHICH WAS NAMED AFTER HIS GRANDDAUGHTER WHO WAS KILLED BY A DRINK DRIVER.

ISN'T THIS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT WORLD ON THIS ISSUE 38 YEARS AFTER THE FACT?

>> SORRY, MY BABY JUST WOKE UP, DO I HAVE A SECT.

I WOULD SAY YEAH, I THINK WE ARE IN A DIFFERENT WORLD BUT AT THE SAME TIME I DON'T THINK DRUNK DRIVING HAS GONE AWAY AS A PROBLEM.

I THINK THE OPPOSITE WOULD BE TRUE.

I THINK WE STILL HAVE PROBLEMS WITH PEOPLE OPERATING UNDER THE INFLUENCE WHETHER IT IS ALCOHOL OR DRUGS OR WHATEVER IT IS.

SO I JUST THINK THAT UBER AND LYFT SAVE SOCIETY FROM THESE ILLS.

I THINK IT IS A LITTLE BIT SIM POLICE PARTICULAR.

>> Braude: IF I MAY, SENATOR, BEYOND PHIL'S ARGUMENTS IT IS SIM POLICE PARTICULAR, WHEN I LISTEN TO THE GOVERNOR SAY ITS OTHER DAY, HE DIDN'T THINK THE UBER AND LYFT THING SOLVED THE PROBLEM EITHER.

I THOUGHT ABOUT IT AFTER THE SHOW AND I SAID IT SEEMS TO ME THE PEOPLE WHO ARE MOST LIKELY TO RESPONSIBLY TAKE AN UBER OR A LYFT IF THEY HAD TOO MUCH TO DRINK, ARE NOT THE PEOPLE WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT.

ST THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD TOO MUCH TO DRINK WHO AREN'T RESPONSIBLE ENOUGH TO TAKE AN UBER AND A LYFT AND ARE MUCH MORE LIKELY TO DO SOMETHING THAT CAN LEAD TO GREAT DANGER FOR OTHERS AND THEMSELVES.

HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT?

LET'S GET THE SENATOR'S RESPONSE IF WE CAN, PLEASE.

>> YEAH, I MEAN WE DON'T MAKE ALL OF OUR POLICIES, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF OUR POLICIES BASED ON THE FACT THAT THERE ARE A FEW BAD ACTORS.

IF YOU WANT TO JUST STOP PEOPLE FROM DRINKING OUTSIDE IN PUBLIC, YOU CAN ALSO JUST BAN ALCOHOL SALES ALL TOGETHER.

I MEAN IF YOU WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE AN ISSUE WITH ALCOHOLISM THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO OVERDRINK RIGHT NOW.

HAPPY HOUR ISN'T GOING TO ENCOURAGE MORE PEOPLE TO BECOME ALCOHOLICS IF THEY AREN'T ALREADY.

THE RESPONSIBLE DRINKERS WILL BE RESPONSIBLE DRINKERS.

AND I THINK WE JUST CAN'T TALK ABOUT THE EXPHEK BENEFITS OF SOME RESTAURANTS, THERE ARE SOME VERY SMALL RESTAURANTS THAT WOULD LOVE TO HAVE SOME BUSINESS ON A MONDAY NIGHT THAT THEY NEVER WOULD GET.

AND MAYBE HAVING A MODIFIED VERSION OF WHAT IS HAPPY HOUR, AND IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE PENNIES ON THE DOLLAR.

WE CAN COME UP WHERE A SYSTEM THAT IS ECONOMICICALLY RESPONSIBLE BUT ALSO ENCOURAGES PEOPLE TO TURN OFF AFTER A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF ALCOHOL.

IT IS NOT A FREE FOR ALL.

I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE BECAUSE I WENT TO UNDERGRAD AND GRAD SCHOOL IN A DIFFERENT STATE THAT HAD HAPPY HOURS, AND IT WAS SOMETHING TO DO AFTER WORK, AND THEN YOU WENT HOME.

THIS IS NOT, I DON'T KNOW, I THINK THERE SAY REAL DISCONNECT OF WHAT EXACTLY IS HAPPY HOUR, HOW IT WORKS AND WHO GOES TO IT.

IT IS MOSTLY PEOPLE COMING RIGHT AFTER WORK.

AND THEY GO, ENJOY, AND THEY MOF ON TO THE REST OF THEIR EVENING.

>> Braude: BUT YOU CAN'T DENY THAT IF YOU ARE A RECENT GRADUATE AND ARE YOU NOT MAKING A TON OF DOUGH, THE LIKELIHOOD OF YOU HAVING A SECOND OR THIRD DRINK IS PROBABLY GREATER WHEN THEY ARE CHEAP THAN WHEN THEY ARE NOT, NO?

>> TRUE.

AND THE LIKELIHOOD OF ME GOING OUT IS ALSO GREATER.

THE LIKELIHOOD OF GOING TO LOCAL RESTAURANTS IS LIKELY GREATER.

THESE ARE ALL BENEFITERS OF COMING ALONG WITH A VERSION OF HAPPY HOUR.

AGAIN MAKING IT A LOCAL OPTION, ALLOWING FOR CITIES AND TOWNS TO BE ABLE TO DESIGN IT WHAT IS BEST FOR THEM IS THE SAFEST OPTION.

>> Braude: I'M RUNNING LOW ON TIME, I INTERRUPTED YOU.

DID YOU WANT TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THE UBER AND LYFT.

>> IN RESPONSE TO WHAT IS TE GOVERNOR SAID.

I THINK THE PEOPLE THAT ARE BEING ATTRACTED BY LOWER PRICING MIGHT BE LESS LIKELY TO JUMP IN AN UBER AND MIGHT BE MORE LIKELY TO DRIVE THEMSELVES.

I WAS 20, WHEN I WAS IN MY 20BGS I LIVED IN NEW YORK.

I LOVED HAPPY HOUR.

I WISH WE COULD GO BACK TO THE DAYS WHERE I HAD NO RESPONSIBILITIES AND COULD DO THAT.

BUT BECAUSE IT'S FUN DOESN'T MEAN IT SHOULD BE BROUGHT BACK.

>> Braude: BEFORE YOU TWO GOING G, THE FIRST THING THAT PHIL SAID HERE IS HE PREFERS THE LEGISLATURE SPEND TIME ON SOMETHING LIKE ALLOWING RESTAURANTS TO DO OUTDOOR DINING WHICH WAS ONE OF THE HUGE BENEFITS FINANCIALICALLY, I THINK.

AND AS A CONSUMER AND CUSTOMER, A HUGE JOY FOR PEOPLE LIKE ME.

WHY HASN'T THE LEGISLATURE ADDRESSED THAT ISSUE AND MADE IT A PERMANENT OPTION FOR RESTAURANTS IF THEY CHOOSE TO DO IT, OUTDOOR DINING, THAT IS?

>> I THINK THE CONVERSATION IS STILT GOING ON, FIRST OF AAL N OUTDOOR DINING.

WE STILL ARE HOPEFUL TO COME BACK AND CONTINUE OUR CONVERSATION ON THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BILL.

SO IT IS NOT A MATTER OF IT NOT BEING PART OF THE LEGISLATURE'S MINDSET AND POSSIBLE CONVERSATION IN TERMS OF PERMANENTS SOLUTIONS.

BUT AGAIN, ANOTHER AREA WHERE PHIL AND I DO DISAGREE TO A CERTAIN EXTENT IS HOW OUTDOOR DINING HAS BEEN RULED OUT.

WHERE IT SHOULD BE RULED OUT AND WHETHER EVERY SINGLE NEIGHBORHOOD HAS BEEN ABLE TO HANDLE IT APPROPRIATELY.

SO I GUESS WHEN I THINK ABOUT THIS, WE HAVE ALLOWED OUTDOOR DINING TO BE SOMETHING THAT GOES DOWN TO THE RESTAURANT LEVEL, IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES, FOR THEM TO DETERMINE WHAT IS SAFEST.

THERE IS TRAFFIC ISSUES.

THERE IS DRINKING ISSUES.

THERE ARE CONCERNS.

WE'VE ALLOWED ALL THE LOCAL ECONOMIC ISSUES TO HAPPEN AT THE RESTAURANT LEVEL.

I THINK HAPPY HOUR SHOULD BE PART OF THAT CONVERSATION AS WELL.

>> Braude: YOU'RE BOTH GOING TO BE BACK QUICKLY TO DISCUSS THAT ONE BECAUSE THAT SAY HUGE ONE FOR ME, PHIL FRATTAROLI, SENATOR EDWARDS, I APPRECIATED YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT COME BACK TOMORROW, LOCAL JOURNALIST SUZAN ZALKIND JOINS ME ON HER NEW HULU DOCUMENTARY, "THE MURDERS BEFORE THE MARATHON," WHICH DIVES INTO WHETHER AN UNSOLVED TRIPLE-HOMICIDE IN DISE HE WHICH SHE BELIEVES IF SOLVED COULD HAVE STOPPED THE 2013 MARATHON BOMBING.

PLUS, THE DROPKICK MURPHY'S KEN CASEY ON HIS EXPANDING TACO EMPIRE, THAT AND MORE, TOMORROW AT 7;00.

THANKS FOR WATCHING-- AND STAY TUNED FOR THE FIRST INSTALLATION OF SEASON TWO OF GBH NEWS' "CURIOSITY DESK"-- AND PLEASE DON'T FORGET UKRAINE.

NOR THE IRANIAN PROTESTORS.

>> MY QUESTION, EDGAR, IS, THOSE PLANES THAT FLY BY, THAT-- THAT HAVE THE TRAILING BANNERS?

I WAS WONDERING, HOW DO THEY TAKE OFF AND HOW DO THEY LAND WITH THOSE BANNERS?

>> WHAT BETTER PLACE TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION THAN RIGHT HERE?

>> THIS PLACE HAS BEEN HERE SINCE 1929.

SO, OVER 90 YEARS NOW.

AND I AM A PILOT.

I'M A MECHANIC.

SO, I DO ALL THE WORK HERE.

I MEAN, I BUILD THE ENGINES.

WE PUT THE AIRPLANE TOGETHER.

WE FLY THEM.

>> HOW ON EARTH DO YOU LEARN HOW TO DO WHAT YOU DO?

>> I'VE BEEN HERE SINCE I WAS IN DIAPERS, SO I'M SORT OF BORN INTO IT.

I WAS LITERALLY PUTTING TOGETHER RED-LETTER BANNERS STANDING ON A STOOL, BECAUSE I WASN'T TALL ENOUGH TO REACH THE STRAPS, WHEN I WAS VERY LITTLE.

>> MUCH OF CHRIS'S BUSINESS IS FLYING THESE ICONIC BANNERS WITH FIVE-FOOT RED LETTERS, OR ENORMOUS PRE-PRINTED BILLBOARDS.

AND, GETTING THEM UP IN THE AIR IS NOT AS EASY AS IT MIGHT SEEM.

EVERYBODY THINKS, HOW DO YOU TAKE OFF OF THAT THING?

>> WELL, YOU COULDN'T PHYSICALLY TAKE OFF WITH IT.

IT'S JUST TOO BIG.

IT'D BE TOO MUCH DRAG.

IT WOULDN'T BE SAFE.

IT WOULDN'T WORK.

>> SO, CAN YOU JUST SHOW ME HOW THIS WORKS?

>> YEAH.

LET'S GO CHECK IT OUT.

>> LET'S DO IT!

ALONG FOR THE RIDE WITH US-- OUR CURIOSITY SEEKER, DEB, READY TO DISCOVER FIRST-HAND HOW CHRIS AND HIS TEAM PULL IT ALL OFF.

LET'S RALLY IS A 275 FOOT ROPE RUNNING TO A SET OF POLES.

THEY'RE ABOUT SIX OR EIGHT FEET APART, ABOUT SIX FEET TALL.

THE END OF THE ROPE HAS A LOOP IN IT AND IT'S JUST STRUNG ACROSS THE POLES.

THE AIRPLANE HAS A GRAPPLE HOOK COMING FROM A RELEASE IN THE BACK THAT COMES TO THE COCKPIT.

WE TAKE OFF, WE DEPLOY THE HOOK.

>> SO, THAT IS THE BANNER BEHIND ME ON THE GROUND.

APPARENTLY, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IS A PLANE IS GOING TO COME FROM BACK HERE SCOOP DOWN TO THE GROUND AND HOOK THAT UP.

IT'S KIND OF CRAZY.

SO THE PILOT COMES AROUND THE PATTERN WE SET UP FOR A DESCENT, SORT OF AT THE POLES, AND WE ACTUALLY SWING THIS HOOK THROUGH THE POLES.

IT GRABS IT, THEY CLIMB OUT, AND THEN BOTH THE AIR-TIME, THE AIRPLANE'S OVER THE TOP OF THE BANNER, IT WILL JUST PEEL THE BANNER OFF THE GROUND AND CLIMB OUT.

IT'S HARD TO DO, BUT IT'S PRETTY COOL TO WATCH.

>> ONCE THE PLANE IS AIRBORNE, A QUICK CHECK TO MAKE SURE THE BANNER HAS UNFURLED CORRECTLY, AND THEN IT'S TIME TO FLY.

IT'S A LOT OF COASTLINE, A LOT OF VERY BUSY BEACHES.

>> WE MIGHT JUST HIT CERTAIN BEACHES OR CERTAIN SECTIONS OF THE CAPE, BUT WE CAN DO ANYWHERE FROM AN HOUR TO FOUR HOURS, OR EVEN MORE.

>> THERE IS STILL MORE WORK TO DO UPON RETURN, THOUGH, AS LANDING WITH A BANNER ATTACHED IS JUST AS MUCH OF A NO-NO AS TAKING OFF WITH IT.

>> YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU SEE IT FLYING, YOU'LL SEE THE BANNER HANGS BELOW THE AIRPLANE.

SO, IF YOU EVER CAME IN AND LET THE BANNER BEAT YOU TO THE GROUND, IT'S GOING TO PULL YOU OUT OF THE SKY.

THAT'S NOT GOOD.

>> SO, BEFORE THE WHEELS HIT THE GRASS, THE PILOT MUST LITERALLY LET THE BANNER OFF THE HOOK.

>> WE COME DOWN AND WE DESCEND OVER THE BANNER AREA WE'RE GOING TO DROP, AND THEN OVER A DESIGNATED SPOT, WE'LL JUST PULL THE RELEASE.

THE BANNER WILL JUST COME OFF AND WILL JUST FALL TO THE GROUND.

AND THEN THE AIRPLANE COMES AROUND, LANDS JUST LIKE A NORMAL AIRPLANE.

>> FROM THERE, ALL THAT'S LEFT IS FOR THE CREW TO COLLECT THE BANNER AND START PREPPING THE NEXT ONE TO GO UP.

>> SUMMER IS A LOT OF THINGS AROUND HERE, BUT RESTFUL IS NOT ONE OF THEM.

>> I'M SO GLAD I ASKED THE QUESTION, BECAUSE THAT WAS SO COOL.

I'VE NEVER SEEN THAT BEFORE.

IT WAS REALLY FUN TO WATCH.

THESE GUYS ARE AMAZING AT WHAT THEY DO.

>> DON'T FORGET TO LIKE AND SUBSCRIBE, AND PERHAPS MORE IMPORTANTLY, LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU ARE CURIOUS ABOUT!

BECAUSE, AS YOU CAN SEE, I MIGHT LOOK INTO IT FOR YOU.

I'M EDGAR B. HERWICK, III.

STAY CURIOUS OUT THERE.