>> Braude: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," A 35-YEAR-OLD LAW MOST HAD FORGOTTEN IS PROMPTING THE STATE TO RETURN BILLIONS IN SURPLUS TAXES, TO THE TAXPAYERS, WITH THE HIGHEST EARNERS HUGE CHECKS.

LOWER WAGE EARNERS?

NOT SO MUCH.

IS THIS REALLY THE BEST SOLUTION?

STATE SENATOR SONIA CHANG DIAZ AND FORMER MASS G.O.P.

CHAIR JENNIFER NASSOUR DEBATE.

PLUS, "GLOBE" BUSINESS COLUMNIST SHIRLEY LEUNG AND RANJAY GULATI OF HARVARD BUSINESS SCHOOL JOIN ME TO TALK ABOUT THE VERY DIFFERENT VIEWS ON "NEW NORMALS" OF THE POST-PANDEMIC WORKPLACE.

>> Braude: IF YOU PAY TAXES IN MASSACHUSETTS, YOU'LL LIKELY BE GETTING A PIECE OF A ROUGHLY THREE BILLION DOLLAR PIE OVER THE NEXT TWO MONTHS.

BACK IN JUNE, BEFORE LAWMAKERS ON BEACON HILL BROKE FOR THEIR BIENNIAL MONTHS-LONG VACATION, THEY WERE TAKING A CLOSER LOOK AT THE NEARLY FIVE BILLION-DOLLAR TAX SURPLUS THE STATE IS SITTING ON, AND THEY WERE WORKING ON A BILL THAT WOULD'VE GIVEN BACK ROUGHLY A HALF-BILLION OF IT MOSTLY TO LOWER- AND MIDDLE-INCOME RESIDENTS IN 250 AND $500 CHECKS.

BUT THEN CAME AN ANNOUNCEMENT FROM GOVERNOR CHARLIE BAKER: THE 1986 TAX CAP LAW, WHICH LIMITS THE AMOUNT OF TAX REVENUE THE STATE CAN KEEP.

IT WAS ONLY TRIGGERED ONCE BEFORE, BACK IN 1987, AND THEN FOR ONLY SMALL CHANGE-- $29 MILLION.

IN THE SPIRIT OF FULL DISCLOSURE: I WAS A FIRM OPPONENT OF THIS LAW BACK WHEN IT WAS PASSED VIA BALLOT QUESTION IN '86.

SO MUCH SO THAT I LED A LAWSUIT TO TRY AND GET IT OVERTURNED.

BUT EVERY STATE SUPREME JUDICIAL COURT JUSTICE DISAGREED WITH ME THEN, AND SO NOW, INSTEAD OF THE MONEY GOING TO THE PEOPLE STRUGGLING THE MOST WITH THE RISING PRICES OF PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING, WHEN THE CHECKS GO OUT, LIKELY IN NOVEMBER, PEOPLE WHO MAKE MORE MONEY, WILL GET A LOT MORE MONEY BACK.

AND THE GOVERNOR THINKS THAT'S THE WAY IT SHOULD BE, AS HE TOLD MARGERY EAGAN AND ME ON BOSTON PUBLIC RADIO: >> THE POLICY IS THE POLICY, IT WAS VOTED ON BY THE VOTERS AND IT SHOULD BE IMPLEMENTED ACCORDINGLY.

IF PEOPLE WANT TO CHANGE IT AT SOME POINT AFTERWARDS, THAT'S PROBABLY A CONVERSATION WORTH HAVING.

>> Braude: I'M JOINED NOW BY STATE SENATOR SONIA CHANG-DIÍAZ, AND JENNIFER NASSOUR, FORMER CHAIR OF THE MASSACHUSETTS REPUBLICAN PARTY, AND FOUNDER AND PRESIDENT OF THE POCKETBOOK PROJECT.

GOOD TO SEE YOU BOTH, THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANKS JIM.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>> Braude: JENNIFER, STARTING WITH YOU, SO IF NOTHING CHANGES IN THE LEGISLATURE, SOMETIME IN A MONTH OR TWO EVERYBODY WHO PAID TAXES LAST YEAR WILL GETS ROUGHLY SP% OF WHAT THEY PAID BACK, WHICH MEANS PEOPLE AT THE TOP GET A LOT MORE, PEOPLE IN LOW AND MIDDLE INCOME RANGES RANGES GET A LOT LESS, IS THAT HOW IT SHOULD BE AS THE GOVERNOR SUGGESTED?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WHAT THE GOVERNOR SAID IS THE PEOPLE VOTED IT IN.

AND THIS IS HOW IT IS.

NOW YOU KNOW, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS WE NEED TO CLARIFY IS THE PEOPLE WHO GET MORE MONEY BACK ARE ALSO THE PEOPLE WHO PAID MORE IN TAXES.

>> Braude: OF COURSE.

>> SO THEY ARE OWED WHAT THEY PAID ERRONEOUSLY.

AND SO I THINK WHAT IS FAIR IS FAIR.

AND IF WE HAVE THE SAME TAX BRACKET THAN THOSE FOLKS GET BACK THEIR MONEY THAT THEY HAD PAID.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW, SENATOR STRKS NOT JUST THE FORMER CHAIR OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY?

THE STATE AND THE REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR, IT SEEMS THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE FOR GOVERNOR, YOU RAN AGAINST HER FOR AWHILE AGREES, HERE SHE IS MAURA HALEY ON THE NIGHT OF HER PRIMARY ELECTION WIN, HERE SHE IS.

>> THE PEOPLE VOTED RECENTLY TO GIVE EVERYONE IN THE STATE TAX RELIEF IF THE STATE HAD EXCESS REVENUE.

AND IT LOOKS LIKE WE DO.

SO THE PEOPLE SHOULD GET THAT MONEY BACK, AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

>> Braude: IS SHE RIGHT?

>> WELL JIM, LOOK, A FEW MONTHS AGO I TOO IN THE SENATE VOTED TO SUPPORT TAX REBATES TO MASSACHUSETTS RESIDENTS.

I THINK THAT IT IS A, YOU KNOW, A COMMON SENSICAL PRINCIPLE WHEN WE HAVE A SURPLUS THIS LARGE THAT SOME OF THAT SHOULD GO BACK TO TAXPAYERS.

THE QUESTION THOUGH, JIM, IS WHEN WE-- THIS ST-- A $5 BILLION SURPLUS ON PAPER.

AND THAT IS A ONCE IN A LIFETIME, IF THAT, OCCURRENCE IN THIS STATE.

AND THIS IS A ONCE IN A LIFETIME OPPORTUNITY FOR MASSACHUSETTS TO TAKE A QUANTUM LEAP OR TWO ON SOME OF THE THINGS THAT VOTER, YOU KNOW, HAVE HUGE CONSENSUS, HAVE BEEN TELLING BEACON HILL FOR A LONG TIME THAT THEY REALLY WANT TO SEE IT.

>> Braude: SO WHAT WOULD THAT MEAN OPERATIONALLY?

SPENDING SOME OF THAT MONEY ON A SPECTRUM OF SERVICES, IS THAT WHAT YOU MEAN?

>> THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN.

YOU HAVE A $10 BILLION STATE OF GOOD RETURN BACK LOG IN OUR TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM, OUR ROAD, BRIDGES, TRANSIT, PEOPLE JUMPING OUT OF BURNING TRAINS TO THE RIVER BELOW.

WE HAVE MASSIVE RACIAL AND ECONOMIC WEALTH I DID VIEDS.

WE HAVE MUNICIPAL WORKERS, CARPENTERS WHO CANNOT AFFORD TO LIVE IN THE COMMUNITIES THAT THEY HAVE BUILT UP OVER THE YEARS.

WE HAVE YOUNG PEOPLE SITTING IN EMERGENCY ROOMS FOR WEEKS ON END BECAUSE THEY CANNOT GET A MENTAL HEALTH PROVIDER.

THESE ARE HUGE PROBLEMS THAT VOTERS HAVE BEEN TALKING TO US ABOUT VOCIFEROUSLY FOR A LONG TIME.

SO SHOULD WE SEND SOME OF THAT MONEY BACK TO TAXPAYERS, YES, AND THAT IS WHAT THE LEGISLATURE, THE HOUSE AND SENATE VOTED TO DO IN JULY.

I WISH WE WOULD COME BACK INTO SESSION TO FINISH THAT PACKAGE.

BUT IS IT RESPONSIBLE BUDGETING TO ROUTE $3 BILLION THROUGH THIS AUTOMATIC FORMULA THAT WE HAVEN'T-- NOBODY TALKED ABOUT OR LOOKED AT IN NEARLY 40 YEAR, I JUST DON'T BELIEVE IT.

>> Braude: JUST TO BE CLEARED THE REASON OF O THE VAST MAJORITY OF YOUR COLLEAGUES ARE NOT SAYING WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS BECAUSE THEY THINK JUST RETURNING IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO OR THEY DON'T WANT TO INTERRUPT THEIR FIVE MONTH VACATION?

>> WELL, JIM, I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE.

AND YOU KNOW, I CAN'T OF COURSE SPEAK FOR 1899 OTHER MEMBERS OF THE LEGISLATURE-- 199 OTHER MEMBERS.

I DO KNOW FROM CONVERSATIONS I HAVE HAD WITH COLLEAGUES THAT THEY SHARE THE BROAD STROKES THAT I OUTLINED.

THAT SOME OF THE MONEY DOES NEED TO GO BACK AND AGAIN I THINK THAT IS EVIDENCED BY THE VOTE THAT WE ALL TOOK IN THE LEGISLATURE IN JULY ON TAX REBATES.

BUT ALSO THAT THERE ARE HUGE INVESTMENTS THAT NEED TO HAPPEN.

WE ARE, UNFORTUNATELY, CAUGHT IN THIS TIME BIND WHERE WE ARE OUT OF FORMAL SESSION, WHICH YOU KNOW, DOESN'T MEAN EVERYBODY IS JUST ON THE BEACH EATING BON BONES.

BUT WE'RE OUT OF FORMAL SESSION DOING OTHER KINDS OF WORK IN THE DISTRICT, IN THE STATE HOUSE.

I WISH, I HAVE BEEN ON RECORD ON THIS, AND MANY OTHERS TOO, THAT WE WOULD COME BACK INTO A SPECIAL SESSION IN ORDER TO SORT THIS OUT.

BECAUSE THIS SAY HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY AND ONCE IN A LIFETIME OPPORTUNITY FOR US IN MASSACHUSETTS TO PAY DOWN SOME REALLY, OR TO MAKE INVESTMENTS IN REALLY BIG HOLES.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW JENNIFER, WHEN WE HAD THE GOVERNOR ON THE RADIO SHOW YESTERDAY, WHAT THE START OF THIS CONVERSATION WAS WAS WHETHER OR NOT THE MONEY SHOULD GO BACK TO THE TAXPAYERS IN CHECKS, FOR EXAMPLE, AS DIRECT DEPOSIT IN NOVEMBER OR AS A CREDIT ON THEIR INCOME TAXES NEXT YEAR.

AND HIS RESPONSE WAS THE REASON IT HAS GOT TO HAPPEN SOON IS BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE IN NEED, THEY'RE HURTING, ET CETERA.

BUT THE PEOPLE WHO WERE HURTING ARE NOT GETTING THE MOST OF THIS MONEY.

I WANT TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT A COUPLE OF CHARTS.

THIS ON THE MASS BUDGET AND POLICY CENTER.

72 PERCENT OF THE $3 BILLION IS GOING TO GO TO THE TOP 20 PERCENT.

LESS THAN 1 PERCENT TO THE BOTTOM 1 PERCENT.

AND LET'S BREAK IT DOWN BY INCOME.

IF YOU MAKE MORE THAN A MILLION BUCKS, WILL YOU GET AT LEAST 22000 BACK.

IF YOU ARE THE MIDDLE 20%, WILL YOU GET $200 BACK.

AND IF YOU ARE THE BOTTOM 20% I WOULD ARGUE THOSE PEOPLE MOST IN NEED, YOU GET A GRAND TOTAL OF $9.

AND WHILE WHAT YOU SAID BEFORE, JENNIFER, IS OBVIOUSLY TRUE, THE PEOPLE WHO PAID THE MOST ARE GEGHT THE MOST, THOSE REALLY PEOPLE IN LEAST NEED THAT IS WHAT MASSACHUSETTS SHOULD BE DOING?

>> NO, NO, NO.

BUT FIRST OF ALL, THAT'S YOUR ASSESSMENT.

>> NOT MY ASSESSMENT, THOSE ARE THE NUMBERS.

>> NO, BUT IT IS BECAUSE IF YOU ARE A BUSINESS OWNER, WHO ARE YOU, JIM, TO SAY THAT THAT BUSINESS OWNER DOESN'T HAVE PAYROLL TO MEET AND THAT THE TAXES THAT THEY PAID, THEY SHURNT GET BACK.

OR AS A SINGLE PARCHT WHO IS RAISING CHILDREN WHO IS WORKING HARD AND NEEDS THAT MONEY, FOR EXACTLY THE SAME COSTS THAT THE SENATOR IS TALKING ABOUT.

>> SHE IS MUCH MORE LIKELY TO MAKE 40,000, NOT A MILLION AND 40,000.

>> NO DISRESPECT TO THE SENATOR, BUT IN NUMBER ONE THE REASON THE LEGISLATURE IS NOT IN SESSION IS BECAUSE IT IN INCUMBENT PROTECTION THAT THEY NEED TO GET INTO THEIR DISTRICTS AND THEY NEED TO GO AND CAMPAIGN AT THIS TIME, INSTEAD OF MAKING DIFFICULT DECISIONS.

THAT IS NUMBER ONE, NUMBER TWO, AGAIN, NO DISRESPECT, BUT WHY IS THE LEGISLATURE, WHY ARE THOSE NUMBERS, THOSE 200 NUMBERS SMART-- MEMBERS SMARTER THAN THE VOTES WHO VOTED THIS IN PREVIOUSLY.

>> JENNIFER T IS THE LAW.

>> HOW DO THEY NOT KNOW-- BY THE VOTERS BUT IT IS A LAW LIKE ANYTHING ELSE.

AND I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS LEGISLATURES ARE ELECTED TO DO.

>> JIM, IF THERE WERE ROCKET SCIENTISTS AND THERE WERE ACCOUNTANTS, AND THERE WERE FINANCIAL PEOPLE THAT WERE ELECTED TO OFFICE IN MASSACHUSETTS, THEY WOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT ONCE OUR REVENUE HAD HIT OVER 38 MILLION, THAT DG-- 38 BILLION, WE WERE GOING TO SET OFF THIS TAX REBATE-- >> Braude: EVEN GOVERNOR BAKER DIDN'T KNOW IT UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE.

>> BUT IT-- WAS THE LAW.

>> Braude: CAN I GO TO YOU FOR A MINUTE.

I KNOW YOU DON'T SPEAK FOR YOUR COLLEAGUES.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF YOUR COLLEAGUES ARE SUPPORTING THE FAIR SHARE AMENDMENT, QUESTION ONE, THE SO CALLED MILLIONAIRES TAX WHICH ESSENTIALLY IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE IN TERMS OF EQUITY FROM WHAT THIS RETURN VIA THE TAX CAP IS.

DO THEY NOT UNDERSTAND THE INTERNAL CONTRADICTION THERE?

>> I DON'T THINK IT'S THAT, JIM.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO SEPARATE THESE TWO QUESTIONS, RIGHT.

BECAUSE WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WITH THE 62S LAW, IS A ONE-TIME, YOU KNOW T IS ONE TIME, MAYBE IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN IN 40 YEARS, WHO KNOWS.

BUT IT SAY ONE TIME REBATE.

WHEREAS THE FAIR SHARE AMENDMENT IS TALKED ABOUT MAKING, YOU KNOW, AN ONGOING CHANGE IN OUR TAX LAW TO MAKE IT MORE PROGRESSIVE, TO MAKE IT MORE LIKE THE FEDERAL TAX SYSTEM THAT GRADUATEED.

I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY PEOPLE IN MASSACHUSETTS ARE SHOCKED WHEN THEY LEARN THAT WE HAVE A FLAT TAX IN MASSACHUSETTS.

AND THAT OUR INCOME TAX SYSTEM IS MORE PROGRESSIVE THAN THE FEDERAL INCOME TAX.

THAT IS A VERY DIFFERENT QUESTION THAN THIS ONE TIME REBATE LAW.

I UNDERSTAND WHAT ARE YOU SAYING, THAT ONE IS REGRESSIVE AND ONE IS PROGRESSIVE.

I DO THINK THERE IS, YOU KNOW, GOOD COMMAND OF THAT DYNAMIC AMONG MY COLLEAGUE LEGISLATORS.

AND YOU KNOW, MY SENSE IS THAT THE BLOCKER HERE IS REALLY THE PROBLEM WHERE WE HAVE THIS RULE IN THE LEGISLATURE.

I'M CAME INTO OFFICE RUNNING AGAINST AN INCUMBENT, YEARS AGO.

BUT THE REASON WE HAVE THIS RULE IN THE LEGISLATURE IS TO GUARD AGAINST LEDGE SLAILTIVE MISCHIEF, OF PATRONAGE RELATED LAWS BEING PASSED RIGHT ON THE DOORSTEP OF ELECTION TIME.

>> Braude: FOR WHATEVER IT IS WORTH, THE GOVERNOR SAID EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID YESTERDAY.

HE ACTUALLY DEFENDED THIS FIVE MONTH HIATUS TO BE POLITE.

JENNIFER, ONLY A MINUTE LEFT.

IN ADDITION TO THE $3 BILLION, THE GOVERNOR HAS GOT A TAX PACKAGE THAT PEOPLE LIKE THE SENATOR ARE CONSIDERING WHICH WOULD TURN ANOTHER $700 MILLION TOP RENTERS, TO PEOPLE WHO PAY THE ESTATE TAX, THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE DEPENDENT AND CHILD CARE EXPENSES PLUS THERE IS THIS MEASURE THAT 2450 AND $500 CHECK THAT I TALKED ABOUT, THE REBATES THAT WERE VOTED INTO THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT BILL THAT NEVER PASSED SHOULD ALL OF THAT GO BACK TO THE TAXPAYER WITHOUT ANY OF IT BEING INVESTED LIKE THE SENATOR SUGGESTED, QUICKLY IF YOU CAN?

>> YES.

BASED, ALL OF THE MONEY SHOULD GET REFUNDED TO THE TAXPAYERS AS PER THE LAW.

THAT IS WHAT THE LAW IS, AND THAT'S WHAT THE TAXPAYER SHOULD GET BACK.

AND AGAIN, WHEN WE GO TO THE MILLIONAIRE'S TAX THAT IS ON THE BALLOT IN NOVEMBER, PEOPLE ARE REALLY NEED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THIS, BECAUSE IT IS GOING TO HURT ALL OF THOSE MOM AND POP BUSINESSES IN THE SAME AREAS THAT THE SENATOR REPRESENTS.

IT IS GOING TO HURT ALL OF OUR BUSINESSES AND ALL OF OUR LITTLE TOWNS AROUND IN THE 351 CITIES AND TOWNS AROUND THE STATE.

SO WE REALLY NEED TO BE VERY CAUTIOUS ABOUT JUST THINKING THAT WE SHOULD JUST SPINED HARDWORKINGS PEOPLE'S MONEY.

>> Braude: JENNIFER, YOU WILL BE HAPPY TO HEAR NEXT WEEK WE WILL HAVE A DEBATE BECAUSE THERE IS ANOTHER SIDE TO THAT QUERKS I THINK THE SENATORS ON THE OTHER SIDE.

>> Braude: SENATOR SONIA CHANG-DIÍAZ, JENNIFER NASSOUR, THANKS.

FOR YOUR TIME, I APPRECIATES IT IT'S NOT EXACTLY BREAKING NEWS THAT THE WORKING WORLD HAS CHANGED DRAMATICALLY OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS.

BUT AS WE SETTLE INTO OUR "NEW-NORMAL" VERSION 5, OR 6, OR 7.0 NOW, EXPECTATIONS ABOUT JUST WHAT "WORK" SHOULD LOOK LIKE VARY DRAMATICALLY.

WHILE SOME WANT TO BE IN THE OFFICE ALL THE TIME, OTHERS WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH LEAVING THEIR HOME OFFICE SET-UP.

WORKING HOURS?

- NEGOTIABLE FOR SOME, A HARD AND FAST 9-TO-5 FOR OTHERS.

AND JUST HOW MUCH OF YOUR PERSONAL LIFE SHOULD YOU SHARE THESE DAYS WITH COLLEAGUES, MANAGERS OR SUBORDINATES?

WELL, DEPENDS ON WHO YOU ASK.

SO WHAT WILL THE OFFICE OF THE FUTURE LOOK LIKE?

I'M JOINED BY SHIRLEY LEUNG, BUSINESS COLUMNIST WITH THE "BOSTON GLOBE," AND RANJAY GULATI, A PROFESSOR OF BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION AT HARVARD BUSINESS SCHOOL, AND AUTHOR OF DEEP PURPOSE: THE HEART AND SOUL OF HIGH-PERFORMANCE COMPANIES.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE, I APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>> Braude: SO RANJAY, STARTING WITH YOU, TWO AND A HALF YEARS IN, WHAT DO PEOPLE WANT THE OFFICE OF THE FUTURE TO LOOK LIKE?

WHAT ARE THE COMMON THREADS COMING OUT THE PANDEMIC?

>> I THINK THE SEVERAL THINGS WE LEARNED IS THAT THE PANDEMIC HAS FORCED A GREAT RETHINK AMONG A LOT OF PEOPLE, RIGHT?

CONFRONTING DEATH, CONFRONTING, YOU KNOW, DISLOCATION, YOUR OWN MORTALITY.

HAS FORCED A RETHINK AMONG SEVERAL SEGMENTS OF THE POPULATION.

IT BEGAN WITH PEOPLE NEAR RETIREMENT THERE WAS A BIG EARLY RETIREMENT MOVEMENT.

BUT THERE IS ALSO HAPPENING AMONG YOUNGER POPULATIONS AS WELL WHO ARE KIND OF, SOME OF THEM ARE EXPECTING THAT DO I REALLY NEED TO GO INTO WORK.

I SEE, I'M COMFORTABLE WHERE I AM.

AND I THINK THIS IS PUTTING A LOT OF PRESSURE ON COMPANIES BECAUSE COMPANIES STRIFE ON STANDARDIZATION.

ONE SIZE FITS ALL.

>> SURE.

>> WE'RE NOT USED TO YOU GET THIS DEAL AND YOU GET THAT DEAL AND EVERYBODY'S GOT A DEAL.

AND NOW SUDDENLY I'M LIKE STRUGGLING TO CREATE EQUITY, PARITY, AND SOME REALLY COMPLICATING THINGS FOR A LOT OF COMPANIES.

>> Braude: SHIRLEY, WHAT DO YOU THINK ARE THE COMMON THREAD, I THINK RANJAY TOUCHED ON ONE, IS IT ST NOT ONE SIZE FITS ALL ANY MORE.

BUT IS IT INCREASED FLEXIBILITY?

WHAT ARE THE COMMON THREATS FROM MOST PEOPLE WHO WORKED FOR THIS PAST TWO AND A HALF YEARS?

>> I MEAN I THINK IT'S ABSOLUTELY NUMBER ONE IS INCREASED FLEXIBILITY.

MANY WORKERS GOT USED TO WORKING FROM HOME, IN THE BEGINNING IN THEIR PAJAMAS, RIGHT.

AND THEN THEY COULD JUST ZOOM IN.

AND NOW A LOT OF COMPANIES ARE ASKING WORKERS TO COME BACK TO WORK.

AND IT IS A HARD TRANSITION.

AND FOR GEN Z THE YOUNGEST EMPLOYEES, A LOT OF THEM HAVE NEVER COME TO THE OFFICE.

THIS IS A COMPLETELY NEW EXPECTATION FOR THEM.

AND SO THAT'S WHY YOU SEE THEM ON TIKTOK, YOU KNOW, VOICING AND BEING OUTSPOKEN ABOUT HOW UNHAPPY THEY ARE AT WORK AND HOW THERE HAS GOT TO BE MORE TO LIFE THAN THIS 9 STO 5 DRUDGERY.

I MEAN RANJAY TALKED ABOUT THE GREAT RESIGNATION AT THE OLDER END.

AND AT THE YOUNGER END YOU ARE SEEING QUIET QUITTING.

>> Braude: THE GEN Z PIECE IN THE GLOBE, SOME GREAT QUOTES FROM THE YOUNGEST OF WORKERS, WE PULLED TOGETHER A FEW.

ST SUPERREPETITIVE, MEANING THE 9 TO 5, IT IS SO DEEP [BLEEP] I DON'T WANT TO ACCEPT MY FATE, I WANT TO RETURN TO THE NUMBER OF HOURS IN A MINUTE BUT RANJAY, EMPLOYERS SEEM TO BE ACCOMMODATING AS BEST THEY CAN, SOME OF THESE DEMAND FORCE LACK OF A BETTER WORD FROM EMPLOYEES BUT WHAT I'M NOT SURE ABOUT, IS IT BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY BELIEVE IT'S POSSIBLE AND GOOD FOR THEIR COMPANY OR BECAUSE THEY SEE IT AS AN EMERGENCY PROPOSITION TO ENSURE THAT THEY CAN BOTH HIRE AND RETAIN WORKERS AT THIS STAGE OF THE PANDEMIC.

>> I THINK DEPENDING ON WHICH SECTOR, THERE ARE A LOT OF COMPANIES WHERE THIS IS DIRE.

TALENT, ACQUISITION, RETENTION HAS BECOME A DIRE SITUATION.

AND THE EARLY WARNING SIGNS ARE IN THERE.

AND LET'S THINK ABOUT WHAT COMPANIES NEED TO BE THINKING ABOUT.

WE ALL FOCUS IN ON THINGS, AND THERE ARE A SEGMENT OF PEOPLE BECAUSE OF LOW WAGES.

THE LOW WAGE SEGMENT OF THE MARKET IS QUITTING BUT PEOPLE EXPECT MORE OUT OF WORK, SO THE SECOND PIECE OF IT IS GIVE ME INTERESTING WORK, WHERE I HAVE RESPONSIBILITY.

I'M IN A POSITIVE WORK ENVIRONMENTS.

AND THE LARGER ONE IS HELP ME FIND PURPOSE.

IS THERE INTRINSIC VAL EYE IN WHAT I AM DOING.

HOW AM I CONTRIBUTING TO SOMETHING MORE THAN JUST SHAREHOLDERS.

SO SUDDENLY YOU SEE EXPECTATIONS OF PEOPLE FROM WHAT THEY WANT TO GET OUT OF WORK CHANGING.

AND IF WE KRCHT STEP UP TO IT, THE COMPANIES CAN'T, THEY WILL GOING TO LOSE OUT ON SOME OF THE BEST TALENT WHO WILL GO SOMEWHERE ELSEWHERE THEY CAN FIND THAT.

>> Braude: SHIRLEY, FOR THE COMPANIES WHO DON'T GET IT, WHAT I WOULD SAY TO THAT C.E.O.

IS IF I TALKED TO YOU THREE YEARS AND TOLD YOU THAT A HYBRID WORKING SITUATION WAS THE NORM, WOULD YOU HAVE SAID TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE.

IT WILL DESTROY OUR CULTURE, DESTROY OUR PRODUCTIVITY, AND THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN WRONG ON BOTH COUNTS, SO ARE THEY REALIZING THAT THIS, THERE IS A NEW WORLD.

AND THEY SHOULD ACCEPT IT NOT JUST TO BE BETTER TO THEIR WORKERS BUT BECAUSE IT MAYBE BETTER FOR THE WORKPLACE AS WELL.

>> I THINK A LOT OF COMPANIES RECOGNIZE SOME FORM OF HYBRID WORKPLACE IS HERE TO STAY.

BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT WHAT WE SEE TODAY, YOU KNOW, THE TWO DAYS OR THREE DAYS IN THE WORK WEEK, WORK IN THE OFFICE.

TWO OR THREE DAYS AT HOME.

I'M NOT SURE IF THAT IS GOING TO BE OUR NEW NORMAL.

I THINK RIGHT NOW WE ARE GOING THROUGH A LOT OF GROWING PAINS, TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS THE RIGHT BALANCE.

AND YOU SEE A SPECTRUM OF KIND OF SCHEDULES, YOU KNOW, SOME COMPANIES, THEIR EMPLOYEES ARE ONLY COMING IN ONCE A MONTH OR ONE WEEK A MONTH.

AND SO IN ADDITION TO THE GREAT RETHINK IT'S A GREAT EXPERIMENTATION OF SCHEDULING.

>> BUT RANJAY, I WANT TO STAY ON THAT TOP UK FOR A SECOND.

IT SEEMS TO ME THERE IS NEVER, I DON'T CARE HOW FAR DOWN THE LINE IT IS, GOING TO BE A FULL RETURN TO THE OFFICE.

I KNOW ARE YOU IN GREECE, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU SAW THE GLOBE TODAY, WE'RE THE STATE WITH THE FOURTH HIGHEST RATE PERCENTAGE OF WORKERS WORKING FROM HOME, WASHINGTON D.C. DRVMENT BY FAR IS NUMBER ONE.

WE'RE PRACTICALLY DIED FOR TWO TWO-- NUMBER TWO WITH WASHINGTON STATE.

A STORY IN FORBES SAID 90% OF CURRENT WORKERS WANT TO WORK FROM HOME AT LEAST ONE DAY A WEEK.

THAT SAY PERMANENT PART OF THE WORKPLACE GOING FORWARD, IS IT NOT?

>> I THINK THAT IS A RESETS.

I THINK IT IS GOING TO BE SOME PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE WHO WILL WANT SOME PERCENTAGE OF TIME THEY CAN WORK FLEX ABILITY.

BUT I DO THINK WHAT YOU SAID EARLIER IS IMPORTANT THAT AS WE MOVE INTO THIS WORLD, CULTURES WILL HAVE TO CHANGE.

THIS IDEA THAT MY CULTURE WON'T GET WRECKED IT IS CAUSING TREMENDOUS STRESS AND STRAIN ON COMPANY CULTURE AND WHEN WITH YOU HAVE SOME PEOPLE WORKING, MOSTLY NEW PLEAS WHO ARE NOT ACCLIMATED, ASSIMILATED INTO THE ORGANIZATION, REALLY HARD TO MAKE THEM PART OF THE CULTURE.

>> NOT ONLY MAKE THEM PART OF THE CULTURE BUT LET'S SAY, SHIRLEY, YOU MENTIONED THE GEN Z WORKERS WHEN I QUOTED FROM THE GLOBE STORY, ONE WOULD ARGUE THE WORKERS WHO MOST MEET, I WOULD SAY, COLLABORATION, MENTORING IN PERSON, ARE THE ONES THAT ARE MOST RESISTANT TO ST.

SO HOW IS THE TWAIN GOING TO MEET THERE?

>> WELL, I THINK IT IS WHAT RANJAY HAS BEEN STUDYING AND RESEARCHING IS THAT COMPANIES HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO HELP THEIR EMPLOYEES DEVELOP A ACCEPTS OF DEEP PURPOSE.

YOU KNOW, WHY ARE WE AT WORK?

WHAT IS THE MISSION HERE, AND REALLY INSPIRE THEIR EMPLOYEES AND THOSE YOUNG EMPLOYEES NEED THAT RIGHT NOW.

ESPECIALLY SINCE MANY HAVE BEEN WORKING FROM HOME.

AND SO I THINK EMPLOYEES, C.E.O.S, EMPLOYERS HAVE TO REALLY THINK ABOUT THAT, THINK ABOUT HOW DO I CONNECT WITH AND ENGAGE EMPLOYEES IN A WAY THAT WE HAVEN'T BEFORE.

>> Braude: IS THERE GOING TO BE A BIG EXPANSION OF THE FOUR DAY WORKWEEK WHICH IS MY PERSONAL CRUSADE, IS THAT GOING TO HAPPEN?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

BUT THERE IS GLOBAL PILOTS, RIGHT?

ON THE FOUR DAY WORKWEEK.

AND BUT I THINK THAT WOULD BE PART OF THE EXPERIMENTATION.

IS THAT A BETTER WAY TO WORK, ESPECIALLY FOR THESE YOUNGER WORKERS.

>> Braude: RANJAY, ONE OF THE TOPICS THAT I THINK IS MOST IMPORTANT AT LEAST IN MY ESTIMATION HAS BEEN UNDEREXPLORED, IS WHEN WE ULTIMATELY SETTLE INTO WHAT EVER THAT POST PANDEMIC WORKPLACE S THERE WILL BE LOT OF TENSION BETWEEN THOSE OF US LIKE ME WHO HAVE THE FREEDOM TO WORK FROM VIRTSD ALLLY ANY WHERE AND MY COWORKER WHO HAS TO BE PHYSICALLY AT THE OFFICE.

FACTORY OR WHATEVER THE WORKPLACE IS.

ARE COMPANIES THINKING ABOUT HOW TO RESOLVE THAT INTERNAL TENSION?

>> I THINK WHAT I THINK WILL BE A KEY ISSUE GOING FORWARD, HOW DO YOU GETS EQUITY AND PARITY IN A MARKETPLACE WHICH IS USED TO STANDARDIZATION FOR EVERYBODY.

BUT IT'S NOT ONLY THE PERSON WHO HAS MORE FLEXIBILITY IS SHOW ADVANTAGED.

IN OTHER WAYS IT MAY BE DISADVANTAGED, SO WHEN IT COMES TO THEIR ANNUAL REVIEW AND APPRAISAL, HOW ARE THEY CONSIDERED, LACK OF FACETIME MEANS WHAT FOR THEM.

LACK OF NET WORKS, ALL THE WATERCOOLER NETWORKS MEANS CAN THEY GET WORK DONE?

ARE THEY REALLY PART OF THE STORY IN THE ORGANIZATION.

>> Braude: IF I MAY, I UNDERSTAND THEY MAY BE DISADVANTAGED BUT THE ONE THING THAT IS INDISPUTABLE, THEY'LL HAVE THE FREEDOM TO DECIDE WHICH CIRCUMSTANCES IS BEST FOR THEM, THAT SECOND SET OF WORKERS WON'T.

THAT'S THE TENSION I'M TALKING ABOUT.

>> AND THAT IS A REAL TENSION.

AND I WILL TELL YOU WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN THERE.

IS THAT ORGANIZATIONS ARE IN A COMPETITION FOR TALENT RIGHT NOW.

AND THOSE THAT ARE WILLING TO, AND YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT THAT THEY WILL EITHER LEAD BUT IT'S ALSO GOING TO CREATE TENSION WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION, ABOUT SOCIAL-- WHY CAN'T SHIRLEY HAVE A THREE DAY WORKWEEK AND I GOT TO COME IN FIVE DAYS A WEEK.

AND HOW, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR ME.

SO IT CREATES INEQUITY, INTERNALLY IN MULTIPLE SETS OF WAYS INSIDE THE ORGANIZATION.

>> Braude: WE ONLY VAI MINUTE LEFT STARTING WITH YOU, SHIRLEY,S NO TRA DRAM--S NO TRA DAM AS TIME, FIVE YEARS FROM NOW, YOU AND RANJAY ARE BACK, WHAT STD SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT CHANGE IN THE OFFICE OF THE FUTURE?

>> THAT IS GOOD.

THAT IS A REALLY GOOD QUESTION.

LET'S SEE.

I THINK FLEXIBILITY WILL BE HERE TO STAY.

>> Braude: YEAH.

>> AND I THINK, HAVE I TO HAND IT TO THE GEN Z GENERATION.

THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO VOICE, THEY ARE SAYING THINGS THAT GEN Z, BABY BOOMERS, WEREN'T WILLING TO SAY ABOUT THEIR UNHAPPINESS ABOUT THE WORKPLACE.

LIKE I FEEL LIKE THERE WILL BE MORE OF A DIALOGUE BETWEEN EMPLOYEES AND EMPLOYERS AND BOSSES ABOUT WHAT IS IMPORTANT WHAT IS NOT, HOW TO MAKE THE WORKPLACE MORE, A BETTER PLACE FOR EVERYBODY.

>> Braude: RANJAY WHAT IS THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE FIVE YEARS DOWN THE LINE AS COMPARED TO LET'S SAY 2019?

>> WORK LIFE BALANCE IS DEAD AND WHAT I MEAN IS WORK LIFE BALANCE IDEA, THERE IS WORK AND THERE IS LIFE, WHICH ARE COMPARTEDMENTALLIZED WHICH MEANS WORK IS NOT LIFE.

PEOPLE WILL EXPECT MORE FROM WORK.

THEY WILL LOOK FOR MEANING OUT OF WORK.

AND WORK IS GOING TO BE PART OF LIFE.

WE'RE GOING TO LOOK FOR PURPOSE IN OR WORK AS MUCH AS WE LOOK FOR PURPOSE IN EVERYTHING ELSE WE DO, OUTSIDE OF WORK.

AND ORGANIZATIONS THAT DON'T DELIVER THAT ARE GOING TO LOSE SOME OF THEIR-- .

>> Braude: YOU SAY IT BEAUTIFULLY, >> Braude: SHIRLEY LEUNG, RANJAY GULATI, THANKS.

>> SEE NEW FIVE YEARS JIM, ON THIS TOING.

AND YOU RANJAY, TOO.

THE FOURTH ANNUAL BOSTON CANNABIS WEEK HAS JUST WRAPPED UP, SHOWCASING JUST SOME OF HOW THE MARIJUANA INDUSTRY HAS EXPANDED IN MASSACHUSETTS SINCE LEGALIZATION.

AND AS GBH MORNING EDITION HOST PARIS ALSTON RECENTLY FOUND, CANNABIS IS FINDING ITS WAY INTO A GROWING NUMBER OF PRODUCTS.

>> BARBECUE SAUCE.

SELTZER.

TWO BACKYARD SUMMER PARTY STAPLES.

BUT, DEPENDING ON HOW YOU GET DOWN.

YOURS MAY BE MISSING ONE KEY INGREDIENT: CANNABIS.

>> WHEN WE THINK ABOUT CANNABIS WE THINK ABOUT CELEBRATIONS, GETTING TOGETHER WITH FRIENDS.

>> THAT'S ANDY HUSBANDS, WHO JIGGLES THE BRISKET AS THE PIT MASTER AT THE SMOKE SHOP BARBECUE.

>> THE WAY I WAS JUST KIND OF JIGGLING IT, THAT'S HOW YOU KNOW IT'S DONE.

>> AND NOW YOU HAVE THE OPTION OF ADDING A LITTLE SOMETHING EXTRA TO THE MIX, THANKS TO THE SMOKE SHOP'S PARTNERSHIP WITH BOUNTIFUL FARMS, WHICH INFUSES SOME OF ITS BARBECUE SAUCE WITH CANNABIS.

>> IT'S GOING THROUGH A REFINEMENT PROCESS.

IT'S BASICALLY VERY SIMILAR TO HOW THEY WOULD MAKE WHISKEY OR HOW THEY WOULD MAKE ALCOHOL.

>> THAT'S ZACHARY TAYLOR, THE GENERAL MANAGER OF CULTIVATION AT BOUNTIFUL FARMS, A GROW FACILITY IN LAKEVILLE THAT HOUSES MORE THAN 2,000 CANNABIS PLANTS, AND RECENTLY WON THE TITLE FOR BEST GRASS IN MASS.

NOW, TAYLOR WANTS TO EXPAND THE IDEA OF HOW CANNABIS IS CONSUMED.

>> BARBECUE IS PASSION DRIVEN AND MEANT TO BE SHARED.

AND YOU DON'T NECESSARILY MAKE A BRISKET FOR YOURSELF AN A COUPLE FRIENDS, CANNABIS IS THAT SAME WAY.

>> BUT CANNABIS ISN'T JUST GOING INTO FOOD THESE DAYS.

80 MILES NORTH IN GEORGETOWN, ONE COMPANY IS TRYING TO MAKE CANNABIS THE BEVERAGE OF CHOICE.

IT'S A SELTZER COMPANY CALLED LEVIA, WHICH OPERATES ALMOST LIKE A BREWERY.

>> PEOPLE ARE JUST USED TO DRINKING THINGS WHEN THEY GET TOGETHER AND IT'S A VERY SOCIAL WAY TO CONSUME.

OUR BEVERAGE KICKS IN FAIRLY QUICKLY, ABOUT 12 TO 15 MINUTES, AND YOU'LL KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GONNA FEEL LIKE FOR THE NEXT TWO HOURS.

>> OH YEAH, THAT'S JUST LIKE A REGULAR SELTZER.

TO BE CLEAR, THE ONES WE TRIED WERE UNINFUSED.

BUT FOR THE ONES THAT ARE INFUSED, AS C.E.O.

TROY BROSNAN EXPLAINS, EACH FORMULA IS LABELED WITH TAG LINES BASED ON THE TYPE OF CANNABIS IN THEM, AND HOW THEY'LL MAKE YOU FEEL.

>> ACHIEVE IS OUR SATIVA, GET THINGS DONE IS THE TAGLINE.

CELEBRATE IS OUR HYBRID, SO WE FEEL LIKE IT SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.

AND THEN DREAM, REALLY COUCH LOCK, INDICA, GO TO SLEEP.

AND DREAM.

SO WE TRIED TO REALLY MAKE IT AS SIMPLE FOR PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE.

BECAUSE WE THINK THAT EDUCATION IS REALLY HARD IN THAT SPACE.

>> DR. UMA DHANABALAN AGREES.

SHE'S A PHYSICIAN AND A CERTIFIED CANNABINOID MEDICINE SPECIALIST, AND NOTES EVEN THE SAME PRODUCT CAN HAVE VERY DIFFERENT EFFECTS FROM ONE PERSON TO THE NEXT.

>> IT IS A LEARNING CURVE.

IT'S A BIT OF TRIAL AND ERROR AND UNDERSTANDING HOW THE DIFFERENT PRODUCTS WORK.

HOW LONG WILL IT LAST?

HOW QUICKLY WILL YOU FEEL IT?

>> AND EATING OR DRINKING IS A LOT DIFFERENT THAN SMOKING.

>> WHEN YOU INHALE LUNGS, IT'S RIGHT INTO THE BRAIN STREAM.

THAT'S WHY YOU FEEL IT RIGHT AWAY.

BUT IT'S SHORT ACTING.

WHEN YOU INGEST IT, IT HAS TO GO THROUGH THE DIGESTIVE SYSTEM.

>> THAT MEANS IT TAKES LONGER TO FEEL, AND LONGER TO WEAR OFF.

FOR GBH NEWS, I'M PARIS ALSTON.

>> Braude: THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT.

WE'LL BE BACK TOMORROW.

THANKS FOR WATCHING, AND PLEASE DON'T FORGET UKRAINE.

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