ANIMATED FEATURE.

AFTER MICHAEL B. JORDAN BECAME THE SIX BLACK MEN TO WIN BEST ACTOR WHILE BESTING ALL HER MALE COMPETITORS IN BEST CINEMATOGRAPHY.

THE FIRST WOMAN OF COLOR TO CLAIM THE GOLD OSCAR STATUE.

THE 90TH ACADEMY AWARDS FEATURED HISTORIC FIRST NOMINATIONS FROM BLACK, LATINX, AND ASIAN CREATORS AND CRAFT, MUSIC AND OTHER PRODUCTION CATEGORIES.

THE TOTAL NUMBER OF NOMINATIONS REMAIN SMALL AND EVEN FEWER NOMINEES WON.

IT WAS ONLY IN THE LATE 1980’S WHEN I BECAME THE FIRST AFRICAN-AMERICAN TO BE NOMINATED FOR AN OSCAR IN THE DOCUMENTARY FEATURE CATEGORY.

I WAS HONORED FOR MY WORK AS PRODUCER, WRITER AND DIRECTOR ON THE DOCUMENTARY, BRIDGE TO FREEDOM, THE SIXTH HOUR OF THE SERIES.

GIVEN INCREMENTAL PACE OF NOMINATIONS AND WINS FOR BLACK, ASIAN AND LATINX PROFESSIONALS, THERE WILL BE MANY MORE FIRSTS TO COME.

THE INCLUSION INITIATIVE REPORT SINCE 1929, THERE HAVE BEEN 13,445 OSCAR NOMINATIONS INCLUDING ALL CATEGORIES BUT ONLY 6% OF THOSE NOMINATIONS ARE PEOPLE OF COLOR.

17% ARE WOMEN BUT 2% ARE BLACK WOMEN.

FOR BLACK PEOPLE SPECIFICALLY, AS OF 2025, FEWER THAN 100 OF THE NEARLY 100 YEARS OF THE ACADEMY AWARDS HAVE WON AN OSCAR.

11 YEARS AFTER THE HASHTAG SPARKED A VIRAL DISCUSSION ABOUT THE LACK OF RECOGNITION FOR ARTISTS OF COLOR AT THE TOP OF THEIR GAME, WHAT TO DO SEARS OSCAR WINS AND LOSSES TELL US ABOUT WHAT HAS CHANGED OR NOT SINCE THEN?

AND DO THE 2026 COMBINED HISTORIC NOMINATIONS IN ACTING CATEGORIES AND CRAFT AND PRODUCTION REPRESENT A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN REPRESENTATION?

JOINING ME TONIGHT, THE NORTHEASTERN PROFESSOR AND CONTRIBUTING WRITER FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES MAGAZINE.

ALSO WITH ME IS SARAH VINCENT, FREELANCE BOSTON MOVIE REVIEWER AND A MEMBER OF THE BOSTON REVIEWS COMMUNITY ORGANIZATION.

AND MAGDIELA IS A COMMUNITY PRODUCER FOR THE EQUITY AND JUSTICE UNIT HERE AT GBH.

LET ME MENTION SOME OF THE HISTORIC NOMINATIONS.

16 FOR "SINNERS" THE MOST EVER IN OSCARS HISTORY.

THE TOP OF FOUR WAS 14 BY TITANIC AND ALL ABOUT EVE AND LALA LAND.

RUTH E. CARTER OF SPRINGFIELD WITH HER FIFTH DOMINATION BECOMES THE MOST NOMINATED BLACK WOMAN IN OSCARS HISTORY.

THAT SEEMS CRAZY.

AND THE FIRST WOMAN OF COLOR, FIRST WOMAN TO WIN IN THE CATEGORY OF BEST CINEMATOGRAPHY.

AND MICHAEL B. JORDAN, SIXTH BLACK ACTOR TO WIN BEST ACTOR.

LET’S TAKE A LISTEN TO HIS ACCEPTANCE SPEECH.

>> BECAUSE OF THE PEOPLE THAT CAME BEFORE ME.

DENZEL WASHINGTON, HALLE BERRY, JAMIE FOXX, FOREST WHITAKER, WILL SMITH -- TO BE AMONGST THOSE GREATS, MY ANCESTORS, MY GUYS.

THANK YOU.

CALLIE: HE CALLED THE ROLL.

THAT WAS SO BLACK ALL THE WAY AROUND.

AT THE BEGINNING OF HIS SPEECH, HE SAID GOD IS GOOD AND THE BLACK PEOPLE IN THE BODY SAID ALL THE TIME.

[LAUGHTER] JUST TO MAKE IT REALLY SPECIAL.

REACTION?

SARAH: FINALLY.

THIS WAS OBVIOUSLY A NO-BRAINER FOR US BUT APPARENTLY IT BLEW THE MIND OF HOLLYWOOD AND I AM GLAD EVERYONE GOT TOGETHER AND FIGURED OUT HE WAS THE BEST MAN FOR THE JOB.

CALEB: I LOVE THE FACT HE WAS HONORED FOR DOING WHAT WAS TWO ROLES IN ONE.

IT WAS NOT JUST IT IS AN HONOR THAT SOMEONE WHO IS BLACK ENDED UP WINNING THE AWARD, IT IS THAT HE ACTUALLY DEMONSTRATED THE EXCELLENCE THAT IS DESERVING OF THE AWARD.

THAT WAS QUITE A PLEASURE.

MAGDIELA: I THINK HIS SPEECH SHOWED HOW MUCH REVERENCE HE HAD FOR ALL THE PEOPLE THAT CAME BEFORE HIM BECAUSE HE WAS ABLE TO NAME THEM AND NAMED THEM SO QUICKLY.

I THOUGHT THAT WAS BEAUTIFUL.

CALLIE: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK ABOUT RUTH E. CARTER BEING THE MOST NOMINATED BLACK WOMAN IN OSCAR HISTORY?

THAT JUST TELLS YOU SOMETHING.

WHAT DOES IT TELL YOU ABOUT WINS AND LOSSES?

SARAH: IT IS STUNNING THAT WE ARE STILL HAVING FIRSTS IN THE 21ST CENTURY AND FILM HAS BEEN AROUND FOR OVER 100 YEARS.

THIS IS INSANE.

WHAT I WOULD POINT ABOUT ARKAPAW, SHE IS BIRACIAL, BLACK AND FILIPINO.

THAT IS WONDERFUL.

SHE SHOULD NOT BE THE FIRST WOMAN AND THE LAST WOMAN IN A CATEGORY THAT IS GENDER-NEUTRAL TO FINALLY WIN ALL CATEGORIES.

THERE IS DEFINITELY A DISCONNECT AND WE KNOW THAT.

I DON’T KNOW WHAT CAN BE DONE TO SOLVE IT BECAUSE WE WILL SOON BE GOING TO ORIGINAL SETTINGS WITH PARAMOUNT’S POSSIBLE TAKEOVER OF WARNER BROS.

WARNER BROS.

WON BIG LAST NIGHT AND WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR A LOT OF THAT DIVERSITY.

PARAMOUNT HAS MADE MOVES THAT THEY ARE GOING BACK TO DEFAULT SETTINGS WITH HIRING PEOPLE THAT ARE POSSIBLY ALLEGED HARASSERS AND WHATNOT.

I AM HOPING NOT BECAUSE I LIKE SOME OF PARAMOUNT’S WORK BUT THEY ARE NO WARNER BROS.

IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHERE WE GO FROM HERE.

CALEB: I THINK SO OFTEN, A LOT OF TIMES WHAT MIGHT BE PERCEIVED AS DIVERSITY HIRES ARE SEEN AS RISKS BUT WHAT RUTH CARTER AND MICHAEL B. JORDAN, WHAT EVEN RYAN COOGLER HAVE DEMONSTRATED OVER THE PAST MANY YEARS AS THEY ARE KIND OF LOTS OF THE BOX OFFICE WHILE ALSO BE IN CRITICAL SUCCESSES.

IT IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO NOT TO BEGIN TO RELEGATE THESE NOMINEES, THE NOMINATIONS AS A TOKENISM BUT RATHER A RECOGNITION OF BOTH EXCELLENCE AT THE BOX OFFICE BUT ALSO AMONGST THOSE THAT ARE CRITICS AND VIEWERS.

MAGDIELA: I ALSO THINK THAT SHOWING THAT PEOPLE ARE STILL BEING FIRST -- YOU ARE STILL GETTING GOOSEBUMPS WHILE WATCHING, IT REALLY SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT THE IMPACT IT IS CREATING FOR PEOPLE AND WHAT IT MEANS FOR REPRESENTATION.

CALLIE: LET’S TALK ABOUT THE NEW CATEGORY OF CASTING.

THE WINNER WAS FOR FRANKENSTEIN.

I THINK FRANKENSTEIN STOLE SOME OF SINNERS’ AWARDS IF YOU ASK ME BUT THE POINT IS, IS THIS AN OPPORTUNITY BY PUTTING EMPHASIS ON WHO WAS CAST AND HOW CASTING HAPPENS TO ACTUALLY BROADEN DIVERSITY?

CALEB: FROM A JOURNALISTIC PERSPECTIVE, NOW THAT IT IS A COMPETITIVE LANDSCAPE THROUGH WHICH IT COULD ALSO BE AWARDED, THE CASTING CATEGORY, I THINK WE WILL LEARN A LOT MORE ABOUT THE PROCESS ACTUALLY.

I DON’T THINK MANY PEOPLE WERE WATCHING A MOVIE, WATCHING ANY SORT OF FILM OF ANY KIND HAVE ANY SORT OF INSIGHT INTO WHAT IT TAKES TO FIND THE RIGHT PERSON OR PUT THE RIGHT PERSON IN WHAT DIVISION.

I THINK WE WILL GET A LOT BETTER LINE OF SIGHT INTO WHAT IT TAKES TO DO IT AND HOPEFULLY THAT CREATES THIS PRESSURE TO DEMAND AND EXPECT A GREATER LETTER -- RATER LEVEL OF DIVERSITY.

CALLIE: I WAS SURPRISED TO HEAR THE FOLKS, AS THEY INTRODUCE THE CASTING NOMINEES, HOW MUCH HANDS-ON THEY HAD.

I THOUGHT THEY NAMED THE PEOPLE AND WALKED AWAY BUT THAT IS NOT THE CASE.

THERE REALLY CAN BE AN IMPACT.

MAGDIELA: ABSOLUTELY.

IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE OVER THE YEARS WHO ENDS UP WINNING TO SEE IF THERE’S A PATTERN, LIKE WHAT PEOPLE ARE STRIVING FOR IN THE FUTURE.

SARAH: I BELIEVE YESTERDAY, THE CASTING WAS ONE BATTLE AFTER ANOTHER.

I DON’T REMEMBER THE WOMAN’S NAME.

FRANKENSTEIN WON A LOT OF THE BEHIND THE SCENES AWARDS.

I WAS ACTUALLY CONCERNED THAT "SINNERS" GOT SO MANY NOMINATIONS BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE RELEGATED TO THE BACK WITH ALL THE HORROR STUFF.

BUT YOU WILL NOT GET THE MAIN DEALS.

I WAS FINE WITH THAT SACRIFICE, THAT IT WENT TO DEL TORO WHO IS AMAZING.

HE GOT IT ALREADY FOR SHAPE OF WATER.

I THINK THE CASTING IS REALLY EXCITING.

I’M INTERESTED IN NOW THAT THAT PART OF THE WORLD WILL BE MORE UNDER THE MICROSCOPE, HOW WILL THAT CHANGE THINGS?

CALLIE: AGAIN, JUST TO CLARIFY, ONE BATTLE AFTER ANOTHER WON THE CASTING, NOT FRANKENSTEIN.

LET’S TALK ABOUT ROLES AND THE ROLES THAT FOLKS OF COLOR OFTEN WIN FOR, PARTICULARLY BLACK FOLKS.

THERE’S ALWAYS SOME CONTROVERSY ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT YOU HAVE TO PLAY EITHER A VILLAIN OR A SUBSERVIENT CHARACTER TO GET THE ATTENTION OF THE ACADEMY.

WE WENT TO ASK FOLKS ON THE STREET WHAT THEY THOUGHT ABOUT THAT.

>> WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS THIS OSCAR SEASON.

I THINK IF THEY DO AWARD ALL BLACK ACTORS, NOT JUST MICHAEL B. JORDAN, AND ALL POC ACTORS ESSENTIALLY, THE AWARDS THEY DO DESERVE FOR THEIR ROLES, I THINK IT WILL BE A GOOD SIGN WE HAVE COME A LOT FURTHER FROM THE PAST.

>> THERE ARE STILL INDIGENOUS PEOPLE WINNING FOR THE FIRST TIME FOR A SUPPORTING ROLE.

I DON’T THINK, ESPECIALLY IN THE CLIMATE OF THE WORLD WE ARE IN NOW, I DON’T THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO PUSH FOR THAT AND I DON’T THINK PEOPLE ARE FOCUSING ON HOW IMPORTANT IT IS FOR BLACK ACTORS AND BIPOC INDIVIDUALS TO BE WINNING THOSE ROLES.

>> I DO THINK THAT BLACK ACTORS AND ACTRESSES HAVE THIS UNSPOKEN STANDARD WE ARE HELD TO WHERE WE HAVE TO JUMP FIVE TIMES MORE HOOPS THAN THE AVERAGE WHITE ACTOR.

>> I THINK IT WAS DEFINITELY NORMALIZED IN A WAY WHERE BLACK PEOPLE ARE JUST VILLAINS IN ALL THESE DIFFERENT TV AND MOVIE SHOWS.

IT IS LIKE, WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE?

WHAT ARE WE TRYING TO PUSH, WHAT NARRATIVE ARE YOU TRYING TO PUSH?

CALLIE: A LOT OF FOLKS, AS YOU SAID EARLIER, WILL LOOK AT MICHAEL B. JORDAN AND SAY HE HAD TO WORK TWICE AS HARD, PLAY TWO CHARACTERS TO WIN SO THAT MAY BE PART OF THE DYNAMIC.

THERE’S A PARTICULAR FOCUS ON THE ROLE OF TAYLOR, WHICH SHE PLAYED, AN OVER SEXUALIZED REVOLUTIONARY, DOMESTIC REVOLUTIONARY.

FOLKS HAVE LOST THEIR MINDS ABOUT JUST THE DENIGRATING ROLE THEY FELT IT WAS FOR HER.

AND FOR BLACK WOMEN WRIT LARGE.

WHAT SAY YOU?

SARAH: I LOVED TEYANA TAYLOR AND I AM PRETENDING THAT SHE IS REALLY GETTING ALL OF THESE NODS FOR THIS MOVIE THAT WAS AMAZING.

CALLIE: HER FORMER WORK.

SARAH: SHE IS GETTING IT FOR THIS BUT I AM PRETENDING.

FOR ME TO GET JOY OUT OF THIS, I HAVE TO REMEMBER HER BODY OF WORK BECAUSE I WAS ONE OF MAY BE TWO PEOPLE IN A VERY LARGE AUDIENCE THAT ADORED ONE BATTLE AFTER ANOTHER BUT I WAS VERY UNCOMFORTABLE NOT ONLY AS A BLACK WOMAN BUT AS A BIRACIAL WOMAN AND WHAT THAT MOVIE WAS SAYING.

I DID NOT READ IT AS POLITICAL TEXT.

IF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH PAUL THOMAS ANDERSON’S WORK, YOU UNDERSTAND HE PUTS HIS OWN LIFE IN IT.

IT IS NOT NECESSARILY A POLITICAL SCREEN SO IT WAS A LITTLE DISTURBING HE FRACTURED HIMSELF INTO TWO FATHERS.

ONE IS THE AMBITIOUS ONE WHO WANTS TO SMOTHER AND KILL HIS KID, WHICH HE DEFEATS AT THE END, BUT IS ALSO EXPRESSED HOW CONCERNED HE IS WITH THE STATE OF THE WORLD AND WHAT HE LEAVES BEHIND.

CALEB: PAUL THOMAS ANDERSON SINCE BOOGIE NIGHTS HAS ALWAYS IN MANY CASES BEEN DISPLAYING HIS EVOLVING WORLDVIEW AT ANY GIVEN TIME.

THAT IS WHY PEOPLE ARE REACTING TO TAYLOR’S PERFORMANCE AND HER ROLE BECAUSE WE WERE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE FACT A GUY WHO IS WHITE IS PROJECTING ONTO A BLACK ACTRESS WHAT EXACTLY HE THINKS PERHAPS THEIR ROLE IN THIS FICTITIOUS BUT VERY REALISTIC WORLD MIGHT NEED TO BE.

AS SUCH, WHEN THE AUDIENCE AND CRITICS AND REVIEWERS ARE REACTING IN A WAY THAT IS SOMEWHAT POSITIVE, THEY ARE IN MANY CASES ACCEPTING THE FACT THAT THE ACADEMY IN MANY CASES IS FULL OF A LOT OF GUYS LIKE PAUL THOMAS ANDERSON, WHO WANT TO PROJECT A WORLD THAT MAY LOOK BETTER BUT IN ACTUALITY MAY LOOK BETTER ONLY IN SERVICE OF WHAT THEY THINK MIGHT BE THE BEST OUTCOMES FOR CERTAIN PEOPLE, YEAH, IT MIGHT BE BLACK WOMEN, BLACK CHARACTERS BUT IN MANY CASES, PEOPLE DON’T GET THE CHOICE AS TO HOW TO MAKE THINGS ON THE SCREEN.

CALLIE: A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE MAD BECAUSE HE’S MARRIED TO A BLACK WOMAN.

SO I THINK YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER PUTTING HER IN THIS ROLE, JUST ADDING THAT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

MAGDIELA: I LOVE TEYANA TAYLOR, I LOVE HER BODY OF WORK.

I THINK THERE IS SOMETHING TO BE SET ABOUT HOW MUCH SKIN WOMEN HAVE TO SHOW, LET ALONE A BLACK WOMAN TO EARN ACCOLADES.

I THINK THAT’S AN INTERESTING TAKE ON THAT.

WHEN PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT HER ON ALL THE RED CARPETS, THEY ARE FOCUSING ON HER BODY AND I THINK THAT IS INTERESTING AND CONTRIBUTES TO THE OVER SEXUALIZATION OF HER IN THE FILM.

CALLIE: THAT WILL BE A CONVERSATION GOING ON FOREVER.

SHE’S A GOOD ACTRESS SO SHE DID GOOD WORK.

I WANT TO PICK UP ON SOMETHING YOU SAID ABOUT HER BEING AWARDED THIS NOMINATION, SARAH, BECAUSE PAUL THOMAS ANDERSON FINALLY GOT HIS OSCARS.

HE’S BEEN UP FOR MANY OSCARS OVER THE YEARS, AND HE GOT THE BIG ONES.

BEST PICTURE AND BEST DIRECTOR.

THAT MEANS HE HAD TO SQUEEZE OUT RYAN COOGLER IN BOTH OF THOSE CATEGORIES.

SO OFTEN WHAT HAPPENS, IT HAPPENS FOR ME, PEOPLE ARE GETTING THE AWARD FOR THIS YEAR BECAUSE OF TIMING.

BAD TIMING.

I WOULD SAY A LOT OF PEOPLE LOOK AT THAT AND SAY IT IS TOTAL RACISM, BUT I KNOW FOR SURE, THE PEOPLE THAT WON IN MY CATEGORY SHOULD HAVE WON THE YEAR BEFORE SO IT COMES BACK AROUND.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT IT?

SARAH: I ACCEPTED THE FACT, BECAUSE OF THAT SEEN IN ONE BATTLE A FOOT OR ANOTHER, IT CHANGES YOUR BRAIN CHEMISTRY.

EVEN FOR SOMEONE LIKE ME WHO’S ARMS ARE FOLDED, I CANNOT DENY THAT WAS AN AMAZING SCENE.

IN MY IDEAL WORLD, HE WOULD HAVE WON FOR BEST DIRECTING AND SINNERS WOULD HAVE WON FOR BEST PICTURE BUT THAT IS NOT HOW THE OSCARS WORK.

I CAN LIVE WITH THAT BECAUSE THAT ROAD SCENE IS AMAZING.

WITH THAT SAID, I AM CONCERNED ABOUT THE BACKLASH FOR TAYLOR I AM BEGINNING TO SEE ONLINE BECAUSE A LOT OF THE ANGER THAT PEOPLE ARE DIRECTING AT ONE BATTLE AFTER ANOTHER ARE NOW BEING DIRECTED AT HER.

I AM VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT BECAUSE SHE’S AN AMAZING WOMAN AND NOW THEY WANT TO BLAME THE THING ON HER THAT SHE PLAYED A ROLE IN, BUT LET’S NOT DO THAT.

LET’S NOT RUIN SOMEONE’S CAREER AT THE HEIGHT OF IT.

CALEB: ON TOP OF THAT, WE ALSO IN MANY CASES ARE ALLOWING PEOPLE LIKE PAUL THOMAS ANDERSON, WHO I ALWAYS HAVE BEEN AN EXTREME FAN OF, WE ARE ALLOWING HIM TO START PAST SOME OF THE CRITICISM THAT I THINK WOULD ALSO ADD TO HIS HUMANITY AS A DIRECTOR.

HIS FRAILTY, VULNERABILITY, SKILLS AND CAPABILITIES.

WHERE HE MIGHT FALL SHORT AND WHERE HE MIGHT BE SUCCEEDING.

KEEPING THAT PRESSURE AND KEEPING THE FOCUS OF OUR EVALUATION ON THE PERSON WHO IS PUTTING THE ENTIRE THING TOGETHER, WHO IS IN THE EDITING BAY, WHO IS WRITING IT AND ADAPTING IT, THAT IS WHERE A LOT OF OUR FOCUS SHOULD BE.

IN MANY CASES, WE ARE JUST WATCHING TAYLOR EXCELLED IN A ROLE THAT PERHAPS MIGHT NOT NECESSARILY HAVE BEEN AS WELL CONSIDERED.

MAGDIELA: I ALSO THOUGHT THAT ONE BATTLE AFTER ANOTHER, WE WALKED IN LIKE THREE MINUTES LATE AND LIKE WHAT IS GOING ON?

IT WAS VERY CONFUSING AND IT WAS BRANDED AS A COMEDY.

TAYLOR AGREED TO DO THIS ROLE.

I THOUGHT IT WAS A CONFUSING COMEDY AND IT REALLY TOOK YOU THROUGH A WHIRLWIND OF THINGS.

ARMS FOLDED BUT STILL WATCHING IT AND STILL LOCKED IN.

I THINK THAT IS -- THAT SHOWS A LITTLE BIT OF HOW I FEEL ABOUT ONE BATTLE AFTER ANOTHER.

I ALSO THINK THAT IT IS REALLY UNFORTUNATE THAT TAYLOR HAS BEEN BLAMED FOR THE OUTCOME OF THE MOVIE BECAUSE SHE’S AN ACTRESS.

CALLIE: AS BLACK FOLKS HAVE BEEN SAYING ONLINE FOR YEARS, IT SEEMS THAT FOLKS CAN ONLY BE GREAT ACTORS AND ACTRESSES IN CERTAIN ROLES TO BE RECOGNIZED AT THIS LEVEL.

MAKE NO MISTAKE, WHATEVER YOU THINK ABOUT THE OSCARS, IT IS VERY IMPORTANT.

IT IS A VERY IMPORTANT CREDENTIAL.

I WANT TO TALK ABOUT RYAN COOGLER BUILDING HIS LITTLE ARMY, POSSE CREATIVELY AND HOW MANY PEOPLE HE’S BROUGHT UP WITH HIM ALONG WITH HIS OWN TALENT.

HE DID WIN FOR ORIGINAL SCREENPLAY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

I THINK THIS IS A FANTASTIC INDICATION OF SOME KIND OF PROGRESS EVEN IF THE NUMBERS DON’T ADD UP.

CALEB: YEAH, I THINK IT IS A DEMONSTRATION -- WHAT WE ARE WITNESSING IS PRETTY SIMILAR TO SR -- SCORSESE AND DE NIRO IN THE 1970’S, REALIZING THEY HAVE CHEMISTRY.

WE ARE SEEING THAT WITH COOGLER AND MICHAEL B. JORDAN.

WE ARE ALSO SEEING A CERTAIN LEVEL OF INVENTIVENESS.

BEFORE, RYAN COOGLER WAS WORKING WITH EXISTING IP.

WHAT WE SAW WAS THE CREATION OR THE RENDERING OF A WORLD THAT ONCE WAS AND THE BLENDING OF THE HORROR GENRE THAT ENABLED THIS TO HAVE SOME DEEP AND CONFOUNDING CONVERSATIONS ABOUT WHAT DOES BLACK ART MEAN AND WHAT IS THE CURRENCY THEN AND NOW?

WHAT WE ARE WITNESSING IS SCORSESE AND ROBERT DE NIRO A LA TAXI DRIVER IN THE EARLY 1970’S REALLY COMING TO THE FORE, HAVING SERIOUS COMMENTARY ON THE AND THEN AND NOW.

CALLIE: VERY INTERESTING.

MAGDIELA: I THINK THAT RYAN COOGLER, EVERYONE PEOPLE HAVE SAID AND THERE’S FEATURES THAT HAVE WORKED WITH HIM HAVE BEEN LIKE THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BELIEVING IN ME.

I THINK THAT SPEAKS TO WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HAVE A VISION AND YOU KNOW HOW TO EXECUTE IT.

I FEEL LIKE HE KNEW HOW TO EXECUTE IT AND COULD SEE THROUGH PEOPLE AND THERE -- WHAT’S IT CALLED?

CALLIE: THEIR TALENT, I GUESS.

MAGDIELA: THAT HAS BEEN BEAUTIFUL TO SEE.

HE SAW ME HERE, HE MET ME HERE AND THIS IS WHERE I AM NOW THANKS TO SOMEBODY BELIEVING IN ME.

THAT SPEAKS TO THE POWER OF WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SOMEONE BELIEVES IN YOU AND IS A CREATIVE MASTERMIND.

CALLIE: IT IS MICHAEL B. JORDAN, FOREVER THEY’VE BEEN WORKING TOGETHER.

LUDWIG DID WIN.

AUTUMN, THIS WAS HER FIRST TIME WORKING WITH HIM, BUT THE WAY SHE SPOKE ABOUT HOW THEY WORK TOGETHER, I THINK WE WILL SEE HER AGAIN IN THE CLUBHOUSE.

SARAH: THE THING THAT IS SPECIAL ABOUT RYAN COOGLER’S I WOULD SAY -- I KNOW THIS IS SACRILEGIOUS AND THE FILM BROS WILL BEAT ME UP, BUT I THINK HE’S BETTER THAN SCORSESE AND I WILL TELL YOU WHY.

HE IS SOUP TO NUTS AMAZING.

EVEN HIS HAIR YESTERDAY WAS A STATEMENT.

THE BRAIDS WITH THE GUITAR AND THE TREBLE CLEF.

EVERYTHING HE DOES FROM MUSIC TO EVERYTHING, HE IS A TRUE VISIONARY.

THE WAY THAT HE SEES THE WORLD -- HE’S NOT EXAMINING A CORNER OF THE WORLD THAT IS HIS AND ONLY EXAMINING WHAT HE IS FASCINATED WITH.

HE’S BRINGING ALL THESE DIFFERENT -- HE’S LIKE AN INTERNATIONAL FEATURE IN AMERICA.

HE CAN BRING EVERY CULTURE IN.

HE’S EXPANSIVE AND BRINGS EVERYONE IN.

YOU DON’T SEE THAT WITH A LOT OF FILMMAKERS.

EVERYONE ELSE IS SO BUSY SAYING THIS IS MINE AND I NEED MY PIECE OF THE PIE.

HE WANTS EVERYBODY IN.

THERE’S A GENUINENESS AND AUTHENTICNESS, THAT IS RARE IN HOLLYWOOD.

CALLIE: I FORGOT HIS WIFE WAS NOMINATED AND WOULD HAVE WON IF IT GOT BEST PICTURE.

SHE WAS A PRODUCER.

THEIR GROUP IS AMAZING AND FANTASTIC.

LAST QUESTION, REALLY QUICKLY.

WHAT ABOUT GOING FORWARD?

WE KNOW AT THE 101ST ACADEMY AWARDS WILL BE ON YOUTUBE SO THERE WILL BE DIFFERENT DYNAMICS ABOUT WHO WATCHES AND WHAT HAPPENS.

THERE’S A LOT OF CONTROVERSY ABOUT MEMBERSHIP VOTING RIGHT NOW.

STILL OVERWHELMINGLY WHITE BUT A LOT FOLKS FROM AROUND THE WORLD THAT ARE MEMBERS AND FOLKS OF COLOR, CONSIDERING WHERE THEY CAME FROM.

IS THIS GOING TO MAKE ANY PROGRESS?

GO A LITTLE FASTER.

DID YOU THINK THIS WAS SIGNIFICANT MOMENTUM?

THIS YEAR?

CALEB: I THINK I AM PERHAPS TOO MUCH OF AN ETERNAL OPTIMIST DESPITE THE CIRCUMSTANCES WE MIGHT SEE.

I DO THINK THIS IS SIGNIFICANT PROGRESS, AWARDING ESPECIALLY THE ORIGINAL SCREENPLAY IS RECOGNITION OF HIS FLARE AND ABILITY.

I THINK THE DIVERSIFICATION IN THE WAYS IN WHICH WE CAN ACCESS THIS MATERIAL, HOPEFULLY IN MY MIND, ENSURE THAT MOVIES DO NOT BECOME A LUXURY ITEM BUT AN ACCESSIBLE CULTURAL TOLD HIM THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE CAN ENGAGE IN.

BY GOING TO YOUTUBE, BY HAVING A LARGER VOTING BASE THAT ARE MORE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE ENTIRE WORLD, PERHAPS WE CAN ENGAGE MORE AND MORE PEOPLE WHO WOULD OTHERWISE NEVER REALLY TAKE THE TIME TO WATCH A 3.5 HOUR SHOW.

CALLIE: I AM STOPPING YOU THERE SO SARAH CAN GET IN.

SARAH: YOUTUBE IS SOMETIMES A NEGATIVE FORUM.

THE CLICKS GO TO THE PEOPLE WHO MAKE COMPLAINTS FIRST SO I AM A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT MOVING IT TO THAT FORUM BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH TIKTOK IS MUCH SMALLER, THERE’S A DIFFERENT ENERGY THAT CAN BE POSITIVE THERE.

YOUTUBE IS LIKE ALL THE MOVIE REVIEWS HAVE COME OUT COULD BE PREDOMINANTLY NEGATIVE.

I AM A LITTLE CONCERNED WITH THAT, PLUS THE ADS.

CONAN O’BRIEN DID A GREAT JOB MAKING FUN OF THAT.

I AM OPTIMISTIC IN A WAY THAT LIFE WILL FIND A WAY.

CINEMA WILL CONTINUE TO SURVIVE, I HOPE.

WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

I’M A LITTLE WORRIED WITH THE WARNER BROS.

MOVE.

I’M A LITTLE WORRIED WITH THE YOUTUBE MOVE BUT PEOPLE WILL FIGURE IT OUT.

MAGDIELA: I’M A LITTLE MORE PESSIMISTIC AND I THINK I WORRY FOR PEOPLE’S ATTENTION SPANS AND WHAT HAPPENS IF THEY DON’T GET ENOUGH VIEWS AND HAVE TO MAKE IT SHORTER AND SHORTER AS IT MOVES FORWARD.

I ALSO THINK THAT MOVIES WILL STILL BE SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING AND A BREAK FROM OTHER THINGS THAT ARE SHORTER FORM.

CALLIE: THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> I DO.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> PERSONALLY, I DO BELIEVE A BLACK ACTOR CAN AND SHOULD WIN AN AWARD FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

>> I THINK SO.

>> YES BASED ON MY OPINION.

>> NOW THAT I THINK ABOUT IT -- >> I WANT IT TO HAPPEN.

I WANT ACTORS TO BE ABLE TO WIN A MAIN ROLE.

I THINK THE WAY THE OSCARS WORK IS SLIGHTLY RIGGED.

I DON’T THINK IT IS MEANT TO HAVE ANYONE ELSE IN THE TYPICAL LIKE A LEONARDO DICAPRIO, MAIN CELEBRITIES WE HAVE SEEN TIME AND TIME AGAIN WIN THAT ARE POC.

THERE ARE STILL INDIGENOUS PEOPLE STILL WAITING FOR THE FIRST TIME FOR SUPPORTING ROLE.

I DON’T THINK, ESPECIALLY IN THE CLIMATE WE ARE IN NOW, I DON’T THINK PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO PUSH FOR THAT AND I DON’T THINK PEOPLE ARE FOCUSING ON HOW IMPORTANT IT IS FOR BLACK ACTORS AND BIPOC INDIVIDUALS TO BE WINNING THOSE ROLES.

>> I FEEL LIKE IT WAS DEFINITELY NORMALIZED IN A WAY WHERE BLACK PEOPLE ARE JUST VILLAINS IN ALL THESE DIFFERENT TV AND MOVIE SHOWS.

IT IS LIKE WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE?

LIKE, WHAT ARE WE TRYING TO PUSH?

WHAT NARRATIVE ARE YOU TRYING TO PUSH?

>> I DO THINK BLACK ACTORS AND ACTRESSES HAVE THIS UNSPOKEN STANDARD WE ARE HELD TO WHERE WE HAVE TO JUMP FIVE TIMES MORE HOOPS THAN THE AVERAGE WHITE ACTOR.

>> I THINK I WOULD LOVE TO SEE MORE BLACK PEOPLE OR ASIAN PEOPLE, LATINA PEOPLE AND IN FANTASY.

I THINK OF LORD OF THE RINGS.

IT IS A GREAT STORY BUT I WANT TO SEE BLACK PEOPLE DOING THAT STUFF TOO.

HAVING FUN, BRANCHING OUT INTO DIFFERENT TYPES OF WORLDS.

>> A BLACK ACTOR BEING ABLE TO PLAY A PROTAGONIST THAT PEOPLE ARE ROOTING FOR, EVEN WHEN THEY TURN INTO A VAMPIRE.

I AM REALLY ROOTING FOR HIM THIS OSCAR SEASON BECAUSE I THINK IT WILL PROVE OUR POINT THAT YES, BLACK ACTORS CAN WIN AN OSCAR WITHOUT HAVING TO BE A VILLAIN OR A SUPPORTING ROLE.

>> IT IS NO SECRET TO HOW PUBLIC MEDIA PORTRAYS BLACK ACTORS AND HOW THEY GET SUB -- SNUBBED.

I THINK IT DOES COME DOWN TO PEOPLE THAT ARE CONTROLLING THE OSCARS.

>> I THINK YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO HAVE HOPE.

ALWAYS SHOWING UP AND BEING IN THOSE SPACES WHEN YOU ARE NOT WANTED TO BE IN THOSE SPACES IS SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE IF WE STOP DOING THAT, IT IS LIKE THEY WIN.

>> THANK YOU FOR TUNING INTO ROOTED.

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