>> Braude: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," FROM THE BOSTON PUBLIC LIBRARY, IT'S NOT ONLY BEEN AN HISTORIC YEAR FOR WOMEN IN STATEWIDE ELECTED OFFICE, BUT IN CORPORATE EXECUTIVE OFFICES TOO.

THE LATEST BOSTON CLUB CENSUS THAT EXAMINES THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF THE STATE'S TOP COMPANIES IS SHOWING BIG IMPROVEMENTS IN SOME AREAS, BUT PLENTY OF ROOM IN OTHERS.

I'M JOINED BY THE REPORT'S CO-AUTHORS ON THEIR MAJOR TAKEAWAYS.

THEN, WITH REPORTS THAT AMAZON WILL SEE THE LATEST MAJOR LAYOFFS IN THE BIG-TECH SECTOR, WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR THE LARGER ECONOMY AND YOUR PERSONAL ECONOMY?

"WASHINGTON POST" COLUMNIST MICHELLE SINGLETARY AND AXIOS BUSINESS EDITOR DAN PRIMACK WILL BREAK IT ALL DOWN.

>> Braude: OVER THE 20 YEARS SINCE THE BOSTON CLUB FIRST STARTED TRACKING WOMENS' ROLES AT THE BIGGEST COMPANIES IN MASSACHUSETTS, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF MOVEMENT IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

AS THE LATEST REPORT JUST OUT TODAY FOUND THE TOP 100 PUBLIC COMPANIES IN THE STATE HIT MULTIPLE NEW RECORDS IN INCREASING THE NUMBER OF WOMEN AND PEOPLE OF DIVERSE RACIAL AND ETHNIC BACKGROUNDS IN TOP LEADERSHIP ROLES.

FOR EXAMPLE, IN 2003, WHEN THE REPORT FIRST CAME OUT, JUST 9.2% OF THE EXECUTIVE OFFICERS AT THESE 100 COMPANIES WERE WOMEN.

IN 2013, THAT NUMBER WAS 10.8%.

AS FOR THIS YEAR?

WELL, LET'S BRING IN MY GUESTS FOR THE BIG REVEAL, AND TO TALK ABOUT WHERE THERE'S STILL PLENTY OF ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT.

CO-AUTHORS TONI WOLFMAN AND PATRICIA FLYNN STARTED THIS CENSUS 20 YEARS AGO, AND THIS ONE IS THE LAST FOR THEM BOTH.

TONI IS ALSO FORMER CHAIR OF THE BOSTON CLUB'S CORPORATE BOARD COMMITTEE, AND PATRICIA IS A PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS AND MANAGEMENT AT BENTLEY UNIVERSITY.

PAT, TONI, CONGRATULATIONS, GOOD TO SEE YOU BOTH.

>> NAH, GOOD TO SEE YOU WELL.

>> Braude: LET ME FILL IN BLANKS IF IF I CAN, I STARTED WITH THE PERCENTAGE-OF-WOMEN EXECUTIVE OFFICERS, 9.2%, NO 3, TWO YEARS LATER 10.8%, DOUBLE THAT NUMBER IN THE MOST RECENT REPORT, 21.5, LET'S GO TO WOMEN DIRECTORS IF WE CAN FOR A SECOND.

9 PERCENT 20 YEARS AGO, 13.8 PERCENT IN 2013.

AND A MORE THAN DOUBLING THIS YEAR TO 29.6 PERCENT.

TONI, STARTING WITH YOU, WHY THE PROGRESS?

WHAT DO YOU ATTRIBUTE IT TO?

>> WELL, I THINK FIRST OF ALL, THE PROGRESS HAS REALLY BEEN IN THIS LAST DECADE.

THE FIRST DECADE THINGS MOVED VERY SLOWLY.

AND I THINK IT TOOK AWHILE THROUGH EDUCATION, ADVOCACY AND TO GET BOARDS, NOMINATING COMMITTEES AND ALSO C.E.O.S TO UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF DIVERSITY AT THE TOP IN TERMS OF WHAT IT DOES TO THE DYNAMICS OF DECISION MAKING.

BUT I THINK IN THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS, YOU HAD CERTAINLY THE RACIAL RECKONING AFTER GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH.

AND I THINK THAT WAS THE BIG TRIGGER FOR THE MOST RECENT CHANGES WITH MORE DIRECTORS OF COLOR ON THE BOARDS OF THESE COMPANIES.

LONGER TERM IT WAS THE CLOUT OF THE INSTITUTIONAL INVESTORS, I THINK.

MONEY TALKS AND EVEN BEFORE BLACK ROCK AND STATE STREET GOT INVOLVED, WE HAVE PARTICULARLY IN BOSTON OUTFITS LIKE TRILLIUM, WALDON, A NUMBER OF SOCIALLY RESPONSIBLE INVESTORS WHO WERE ACTING TO CHANGE THE LANDSCAPE.

STEVE GROSSMAN, DEB GOLDBERG.

>> YEAH.

>> BUT IF I CAN, GETTING BACK TO WHAT TONI SAID, HAVE THEY LEARNED HOW IMPORTANT DIVERSITY IS?

WE'RE GOING TO GET TO THE ISSUE OF PEOPLE OF COLOR IN A MINUTE BUT HOW IMPORTANT DIVERSITY IS BOTH INTERNALLY OR TO THEIR BOTTOMLINE OR IS THIS MORE A CASE OF SUNSHINE BEING THE BEST, NOT DISINFECTANT BUT INCENTIVE TO DO GOOD THINGS BECAUSE OTHERWISE YOU GET PRETTY BADLY EMBARRASSED.

>> RIGHT, WELL, WE DIDN'T DO A SURVEY OF THAT NATURE, BUT I WOULD HOPE THAT IT CERTAINLY-- THE MESSAGE HAS CERTAINLY CHANGED, NOT JUST COMING FROM ONE OR TWO PLACES.

IT'S REALLY COMING FROM A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT GROUPS.

AND I THINK TOO THAT THEY START TO SEE THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN BOARDS STARTED.

WHEN WE STARTED, 50 OF THESE COMPANIES HAD NO WOMEN, 50 OUT OF A HUNDRED.

SO THIS YEAR WE'RE CLOSE.

ALMOST ALL OF THEM.

BUT I THINK ONCE YOU GET ONE EVEN, HAVING BEEN THE FIRST WOMAN ON A COUPLE OF BOARDS, I CAN TELL YOU, IT REALLY CHANGES THE NATURE, OF THE CONVERSATION.

SO I THINK PARTIALLY WHEN IT STARTED, THEY MIGHT HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THIS GOING TO BRING TO US, HOW ARE WE GOING TO REACT.

>> BUT THEY GET IT NOW.

>> DIFFERENT VIEWS, DIFFERENT SOURCES OF INFORMATION THAT I THINK THAT REALLY HELPS THE CASE.

>> YOU KNOW TONI, I WANT TO GO TO DIRECTORS OF COLOR.

THIS IS ALSO FROM YOUR CURRENT REPORT.

WHITE MEN, 59 PERCENT.

WHITE WOMEN, 23 PERCENT.

MEN OF COLOR, 11.1 PERCENT.

WOMEN OF COLOR, 6.6 PERCENT.

I KNOW THOSE STATS FOR PARTICULARLY WOMEN OF COLOR ARE UP DRAMATICALLY.

THEY ARE STILL PITSFUL, I SHOULD SAY.

IS YOUR SENSE THAT ON THIS FRONT WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO SEAT KIND OF, I GUESS RAPID PROGRESS, NOT ENOUGH, BUT RAPID PROGRESS THAT WE'VE SEEN THE LAST DECADE?

>> I DON'T KNOW HOW RAPID.

THE BOTTOMLINE CHANGES WITH THE RATE AT WHICH THERE ARE-- THAT OPENINGS ARE FILLED.

AND OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS, WOMEN AND PARTICULARLY WOMEN OF COLOR HAVE BEEN ELECTED TO THOSE VACANCIES, SOMETIMES BOARDS HAVE BEEN EXPANDED.

BUT OFTEN IT IS JUST TAKING THE PLACE OF RETIRING DIRECTORS.

I THINK IT WILL CONTINUE BECAUSE I THINK AS THE NOMINATING COMMITTEE BECOME MORE FAMILIAR, WITH THE VAST TALENT POOL OUT THERE, AND HAVE-- THEY HAVE LEARNED A LOT OVER THE LAST DECADE, AS TO HOW TO SOURCE CANDIDATES.

THEY DON'T RELY AS MUCH ON THEIR NARROW PERSONAL NETWORKS.

AND YOU HAVE MORE ANMORE WOMEN AND PEOPLE OF COLOR, BECOMING CORPORATE EXECUTIVES.

AT THE TOP, SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE REPORT, WHEN WE LIFT THE WOMEN WHO ARE EXECUTIVE OFFICERS IN THESE COMPANIES, MANY OTHER COMPANIES WILL LOOK AT THAT AND SAY WELL, HERE'S EVEN LOCAL TALENT WHO WE MIGHT TALK TO.

>> YOU KNOW PAT, I DON'T KNOW IF ONE OF YOU CREATED ONE OF MY FAVORITE TERMS I NEVER HEARD BEFORE, 0-0. WHO CAME UP WITH THAT.

>> I DON'T KNOW.

>> FOR SEVERAL YEARS JUST AMONGST OURSELVES, WE USED TO, YO KNOW, WHEN WE WOULD BE IN MEETINGS.

>> DOES ANY SET OF WORDS SAY EXACTLY WHAT SOMETHING IS, MEANING 0 WOMEN IN THE EXECUTIVE SUITE, 0 ON THE BOARD.

WHEN I STARTED THIS, THERE WERE 35 COMPANIES OUT OF THAT COMPANY WHO WERE 0-0, WENT DOWN TO 26 IN A DECADE, ONLY ONE THIS YEAR.

WHAT IS THE ONE BY THE WAY AND WHAT IS THEIR EXCUSE, PAT?

>> GLOBAL PARTNERS.

>> Braude: AND WHAT IS THEIR PROBLEM?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THEY HAD WOMEN BMP IN BOTH-- POSITIONS.

>> Braude: THAT IS FINE, WE DON'T NEED THEM NOW, AS LONG AS THEY HAD THEM IN THE PAST.

>> THEY ACTUALLY HAD SOME PEOPLE LEAVE.

AND SO IT'S NOT THAT THEY HAVE ALWAYS HAD 0-0.

AND I KNOW THEY DO HAVE SOME EXECUTIVE OFFICES THAT ARE NOT INCLUDED IN THE FTC DATABASE THAT WE USE, ON COLLECTING THIS INFORMATION.

>> Braude: OKAY.

>> BUT THEY STILL HAVE NO CURRENTLY THEY HAVE NO WOMEN ON THEIR BOARD.

BUT THEY, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THEY ARE ACTIVELY LOOKING.

>> Braude: I'M SURE THEY ARE.

>> CAN WE TALK ABOUT THE FUTURE JUST FOR A MINUTE ABOUT EXTERNAL FORCES.

BOSTON NOW HAS FOR EXACTLY A YEAR A WOMAN MAYOR, FIRST TIME EVER.

WE HAVE A WOMAN GOVERNOR ELECT, FIRST TIME EVER.

FIVE OUT OF SIX WOMEN CONSTITUTIONAL LAW FIRST TIME EVER, DOES THAT PUT EVEN MORE PRESSURE ON THESE COMPANIES THAT DO BUSINESS HERE, TONI, TO DIVERSIFY THEIR BOARDS FOR I THINK PRETTY OBVIOUS REASONS, DOES IT?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

BUT THEY CERTAINLY ARE VISIBLE.

AND I THINK JUST THE FACT THAT THESE WOMEN WHERE SO VISIBLE AND SO POWERFUL, SENSED MESSAGES TO EVERYONE.

AND I THINK AN IMPORTANT CONSTITUENCY QUITE HONESTLY ARE THEWOMEN COMING UP.

WHO ARE STARTING TO SEE THEMSELVES OR SEE OTHERS LIKE THEMSELVES IN POSITIONS OF AUTHORITY.

AND ALL RIGHT, MAYBE I CAN DO IT TOO.

>> YEAH.

>> AND I THINK THERE'S INTERNAL PRESSURE IN COMPANIES AS WELL.

WE WANT TO SEE PEOPLE LIKE OURSELVES AT THE TOP SCW.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW PAT, I'M A MANDATE KIND OF GUY, I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE AREN'T, AND MY ATTITUDE IS IF YOU GIVEN TIT, INDIVIDUALS, ORGANIZATIONS A CHANCE TO DO THE RIGHT THING, AND IF THEY MOVE TOO SLOWLY, THEN GOVERNMENT HAS GOT TO BE INVOLVED.

I'M SURE YOU KNOW BETTER THAN I.

THE EUROPEAN UNION JUST PASSED A MEASURE THAT REQUIRED THEIR MEMBERS HAVE A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE, I THINK IT IS HO% OF WOMEN ON BOARDS LIKE 2026, SOME INDIVIDUAL WESTERN EUROPEAN COMPANIES THE SAME.

CALIFORNIA HAS SUCH A REVISION UNTIL IT WAS STRUCK DOWN RECENTLY.

ARE MANDATES, I KNOW CORPORATIONS DON'T LIKE MANDATES.

IS THAT EVER DISCUSSED AS SORT OF THE STICK OUT THERE IF THE CARROT DOESN'T WORK?

>> I THINK AS YOU SAID, SOME.

MANDATEDS WERE STRUCK DOWN.

SO I DON'T THINK WE CAN DEPEND ON THAT HAPPENING AND BEING CONSISTENT.

BUT DO I THINK THAT THE FACT THAT THE "BOSTON GLOBE" AND VB W-W OTHER MAGAZINES HAVE HIGHLIGHTED THE 0-0S AS YOU SAID OR HIGHLIGHTED COMPANIES THAT ONLY HAD ONE ONE FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME.

SO I THINK THAT IS MORE PRESSURE THAN NECESSARILY HOPING THE GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T GET STRUCK DOWN, YOU KNOW A YEAR LATER.

>> BEFORE YOU CONTINUE, TONI, I SHOULD SAY PAT, BASED ON WHAT YOU SAID, SHIRLEY LEUNG AT THE GLOBE HAS BEEN ALL OVER THIS IN GREAT PART THANKS TO YOU BUT THE ISSUE IN GENERAL, NO NOBODY HAS BEEN MORE RELENTLESS THAN SHIRLEY.

>> YES, SHE HAS.

I WAS GOING TO SAY, THE KIND OF MANDATE THAT I SUPPORT IS MANDATORY DISCLOSURE.

SUCH AS THIS NAZ LAW-- THIS NASDAQ LAW BECAUSE ARE YOU FORCING COMPANIES TO BE PUBLIC ABOUT THE EXOTION OF THEIR BOARD IN WAYS THAT ALL OF US CAN UNDERSTAND.

AND WHEN THEY HAVE TO GRAPPLE WITH THAT, AND THEY SEE THE GAP, THEY'RE GOING TO THINK TWICE ABOUT IT.

AND I THINK BECOME MORE INTENTIONAL.

>> Braude: TONI, STAYING WITH YOU, THERE WAS A TIME BEFORE HE WAS GOVERNOR THAT ITS CHARLIE BAKER WAS IN THE DREADED PRIVATE SECTOR.

HE WAS OBVIOUSLY HEAD OF HARVARD PILGRIM.

AND HE HAS TOLD ME ON MORE THAN ONE OCCASION.

I KNOW HE SHARES THE CORPORATE ADVISORY BOARD FOR THE BOSTON CLUB BUT HE HAS GONE OUT OF HIS WAY TO SAY SOMETHING I WASN'T AWARE OF.

THAT YOU ALL HELPED HIM FIND WOMEN TO SIT ON THE BOARD OF HARVARD PILGRIM.

SO IT IS NOT JUST THIS REPORT.

ST ACTUALLY FINDING INDIVIDUALS TO FILL THESE SPACES THAT YOU HAVE BEEN REALLY HELPFUL WITH.

>> THE BOSTON CLUB HAS BEEN DOING THAT SINCE THE 19 90S.

>> THE WORD IS GETTING OUT.

>> YEAH.

>> THE WORD IS ET GOING OUT.

AND MORE AND MORE WOMEN KNOW THIS THIS DATABASE EXISTS AND SO THEY ARE CONTACTING THE BOSTON CLUB AND SAYING HEY, I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO BE CONSIDERED FOR SOME BOARD.

SO I THINK WE'RE NOW GETTING A LOT MORE PEOPLE ADDING THEIR NAMES TO THE DATABASE, WHICH IS ALSO BEEN VERY HELPFUL.

>> Braude: BY THE WAY, THIS IS NOT BINDERS FULL OF WOMEN IF THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE ARE THINKING ABOUT.

BEFORE YOU GO, THIS IS IT FOR YOU TWO.

WHAT IS THE DEAL?

WHY ARE YOU LEECHING, TONI, STARTING WITH YOU.

>> OH, I'M LEAVING BECAUSE PAT'S LEAVING.

NO, HONESTLY.

I CAN'T IMAGINE WORKING WITH-- .

>> Braude: PAT, WHERE ARE YOU LEAVING.

>> I'M ACTUALLY LEAVING BECAUSE I'M RETIRING FROM BENTLEY.

HAVE I BEEN THERE 47 YEARS.

>> Braude: OH MY GOODNESS.

>> INCLUDING TEN YEARS AS THE DEAN.

AND I'M ALSO ON THE COLUMBIA FUND'S BOARD AND WE MERGED DURING COVID.

AND WE NOW OVERSEE ABOUT $300 BILLION IN ASSETS.

THAT IS ANOTHER FULL TIME JOB.

>> Braude: I GUESS IT IS, LET ME SAY I THINK ON BEHALF OF EVERYBODY, YOU HAVE MADE A HUGE CONTRIBUTION TO IMPORTANT THINGS OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS.

I KNOW YOUR WORK WILL CONTINUE.

BUT I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR TONIGHT AND THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU HAVE DONE FOR THE PAST 20 YEAR, THANKS SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH IF YOU WANT TO SEE THE FULL REPORT, YOU CAN FIND IT ONLINE AT THEBOSTONCLUB.COM.

OR IF YOU'RE A LITTLE SHORT ON TIME, IN THE INTERIM, YOU CAN CHECK OUT SHIRLEY LEUNG'S PIECE IN THE "BOSTON GLOBE."

NEXT UP, BIG TECH COMPANIES, MANY WITH A BIG PRESENCE HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS, HAVE BEEN SLASHING JOBS LEFT AND RIGHT, AS THE YEAR COMES TO A CLOSE.

WE'VE SEEN 20,000 CUTS IN THE LAST WEEK ALONE FROM TWITTER, FACEBOOK PARENT COMPANY META AND LYFT, AND NOW REPORTS INDICATE AMAZON WILL BE CUTTING ANOTHER 10,000 JOBS AS EARLY AS THIS WEEK.

AND IF THAT HAS YOU WORRIED ABOUT YOUR STOCK PORTFOLIO AND THINKING ABOUT MOVING INTO ALTERNATIVE MARKETS, TREAD CAREFULLY, BECAUSE WE ALSO JUST SAW THE COLLAPSE OF CRYPTO-CURRENCY EXCHANGE FTX, WHICH WAS HAWKED BY THE LIKES OF TOM BRADY, STEPHEN CURRY AND SHAQ AMONG OTHERS, AND WHICH HAS NOW FILED FOR BANKRUPTCY, AND IS UNDER FEDERAL INVESTIGATION.

SO WHAT DOES ALL THIS MEAN FOR YOU AND ME, AND THE ECONOMY BEYOND THESE WORKPLACES?

I'M JOINED BY MICHELLE SINGLETARY, PERSONAL FINANCE COLUMNIST FOR THE "WASHINGTON POST," AND DAN PRIMACK, BUSINESS EDITOR AT AXIOS.

>> Braude: MICHELLE SINGLETARY, DAN, MICHELLE, GREAT TO SEE YOU BOTH.

>> GRAD TO BE MERE.

>> Braude: DAN, STARTING WITH YOU, WHEN YOU SEE THOUSANDS OF LAYOFFS AT THESE PLACES WHAT IS YOUR TAKEAWAY, JUST HIGH PROFILE HEADLINES OR A BROADER, DEEPER KIND OF PROBLEM.

>> BROADER DEEPER PROBLEM BUT FOR THE TECH INDUSTRY SPECIFICALLY WHICH REALLY, I GUESS ARGUABLY OVERHIRED.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, REALLY EVEN GOING BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, TECH COMPANIES, AMAZON, FACEBOOK, ET CETERA, WERE HIRING AT A MUCH GREATER RATE THAN ALMOST ANY OTHER SORT OF COMPANY WAS.

AND WITH VERY, VERY HIGH-PAYING JOBS.

SO YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT THE OVERALL ECONOMY, THE OVERALL ECONOMY IS ADDING JOBS MONTH OVER MONTH.

BUT IT IS TECH, WHICH IT KIND OF OVERHIRED, AND IS NOW CUTTING BACK IF PART BECAUSE THERE IS A SLOW DOWN IN ADS WHICH IS HURTING COMPANIES LIKE FACEBOOK BUT ALSO THERE IS EXPECTATIONS OF A KIND OF BROADER, IF NOT ECONOMIC, NOT RECESSION, DEFINITELY SLOWDOWN IN CONSUMER SPENDING WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT AMAZON IS LOOKING AT.

>> Braude: MICHELLE, DO YOU SUBSCRIBE TO THE SAME ANALYSIS.

>> I DO.

I MEAN YOU KNOW, THEY GOT BLOATED ESPECIALLY DURING THE PANDEMIC.

PEOPLE WERE ON FACEBOOK.

PEOPLE WERE BUYING THINGS ON AMAZON BECAUSE WE, MANY OF US STUCK AT HOME.

AND SO NOW PEOPLE ARE VENTURING OUT.

THEY WANT TO GET OUT.

THEY WANT TO GO TO BRICK AND MORTAR STORES, ACTUALLY.

AND TRAVELING.

AND SO BUT I THINK YOU HAVE TO BE REALLY CAREFUL NOT TO LOOK AT WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE TECH INDUSTRY AS AN INDICTMENT OF ALL THE COMPANIES AND, WHETHER YOU KNOW, MANY COMPANIES ARE GOING TO HAVE LAYOFFS.

WE CERTAINLY ARE HAVING TROUBLE IN THE ECONOMY.

BUT IT'S NOT AS BAD AS PEOPLE THINK, WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE OTHER NUMBERS.

PEOPLE ARE STILL ADDING JOBS.

PEOPLE ARE STILL SPENDING.

AND THEY'RE GOING TO BE SPENDING FOR THE HOLIDAY.

>> Braude: SPEAKING OF SPENDING, MICHELLE, WHEN I READ, I HAD TO DO A DOUBLE TAKE.

WHEN I READ JEFF BEZOS SAYING THAT PEOPLE SHOULD PUT OFF LARGE PURCHASES, I HAD A FEELING I WOULD SEE HIM SITTING ON YOUR LAP WITH YOUR ARM UP HIS BACK WORKING HIS MOUTH.

WERE YOU SHOCKED BY THAT COMMENT FROM MR. CONSUMER IN AMERICA?

>> YEAH, WELL, YOU KNOW, HE'S MY BOSS SO I'M NOT GOING TO GO THERE.

>> Braude: I FORGOT ABOUT THAT.

>> I WANT TO KEEP THIS GIRL'S JOB.

>> Braude: I FORGOT ABOUT THAT.

>> SO, SO LET ME JUST SAY THAT I THINK IT IS WISE THAT IF YOU ARE STRUGGLING ALREADY OR YOU ARE JUST GETTING BY PAYCHECK TO PAYCHECK, THAT YOU BE VERY CAREFUL RIGHT NOW.

WE DON'T KNOW REALLY WHERE THE ECONOMY IS GOING.

WE MAY BE IN A RECESSION.

WE MAY SKIRT PASSED ONE BUT IT IS TRUE THAT THERE ARE LOTS OF AMERICANS WHO ARE SUFFERING RIGHT NOW.

ALL THOSE TECH WORKERS WHO ARE OUT OF WORK.

AND HERE IS THE THING.

THEY ARE HIGHLY PAID INDIVIDUALS, AND WHEN WE HAD THE GREAT RECESSION, WE KNEW THAT IT TOOK ANYWHERE FROM 18 MONTHS TO 24 MONTH FOR HIGHLY COMPENSATED INDIVIDUALS TO FIND SIMILAR EMPLOYMENT AT THAT SAME INCOME RATE.

AND SO, BUT THEY'VE GOT MORTGAGES BASED ON THOSE HIGH SALARIES.

THEY'VE GOT KIDS IN PRIVATE SCHOOL OR THEY'VE BEEN SHOPPING AND DOING ALL KINDS OF THINGS.

AND THAT, YOU KNOW, IS THE CONCERN FOR ME.

SO I ALWAYS TELL PEOPLE, IF YOU ARE ON THE MARGIN, PARTICULARLY AT TIMES LIKE THIS, THAT YOU SHOULD PUT TO THE SIDE LARGE UNNECESSARY PURCHASES OR HOME IMPROVEMENTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, UNTIL WE SEE HOW THINGS SHAKE OUT.

>> I WILL CALL YOU AFTER THE SHOW AND YOU CAN TELL ME WHAT YOU REALLY THINK, OKAY.

DAN, CAN WE CONTINUE THE TUTORIAL JUST FOR A SECOND.

HAVE I LEARNED IN THIS WHOLE ARE POO SES, OBVIOUSLY WHEN THE FED RAISES INTEREST RATES, CONSUMER SPENDING COMES BACK.

BUSINESS INVESTMENT GOES DOWN SO LAYOFFS I GUESS ONE WOULD ASSUME ARE A NATURAL CONSEQUENCE BUT THE FLIP SIDE IS WHEN IT IS SO HARD FOR COMPANIES TO FIND EMPLOYEES, I WOULD SAY THAT IF YOU ARE THAT BIG AND THAT WEALTHY, YOU HESITATE TO LAYOFF PEOPLE IN THOSE KINDS OF NUMBERS BECAUSE WHEN YOU NEED THEM BACK YOU WILL HAVE A HELL OF A TIME FINDING THEM.

WHAT'S WRONG WITH MY ANALYSIS.

>> I THINK THE ONLY THING THAT IS WRONG AS MICHELLE SAID, THESE ARE GENERALLY VERY HIGH-PAYING JOBS.

FOR SURE, FACEBOOK, GOOGLE, ET CETERA, THEY HAVE STRUGGLED TO HIRE, NOT THE SAME WAY YOUR CORNER COFFEE SHOP STRILGED BUT BECAUSE THEIR CANDIDATES HAVE THEIR CHOICE OF LOTS OF JOBS OFFERING HUGE SALARIES THAT THEY HAVE TO COMPETE.

BUT BECAUSE THESE ARE WELL COMPENSATED ROLLS IF THEY DO DECIDE TO HIRE BACK OR REGROW, THEY ARE OFFERING REALLY, REALLY, REALLY GOOD PACKAGES.

IF THIS IS SOMEBODY DECIDING BETWEEN TWO CRAPPY JOBS, THIS IS EITHER GREAT JOBS AND THEY WILL BE ABLE TO FIND THEIR PEOPLE.

>> A MINUTE AGO, MICHELLE SAID SHE WASN'T SURE WHETHER A RECESSION IS IN OUR FUTURE.

I WOULD LOVE FOR YOU TO GIVE YOUR TWO CENTS.

BUT WHETHER IT IS OR NOT, IT'S JUST THE WORD TO MOST PEOPLE WHO ARE LIVING NORMAL LIVES.

WHAT SHOULD IT MEAN TO THEM IN A CONCRETE WAY?

>> WHAT IT MEANS IN A CONCRETE WAY, IT DOES TIE IN TO JOBS BECAUSE EMPLOYERS LOOK AT THAT.

EMPLOYERS CARE IF AMERICA IS IN A RECESSION.

AND THEY OBVIOUSLY LOOK WITHIN THE NUMBERS AND DECIDE WHAT THEY ACTUALLY DO AND WHAT THEY ACTUALLY SELL.

BUT IF EMPLOYERS BELIEVE THAT THEIR BUSINESS IS GOING TO FLOW, THAT PROBABLY MEANS THEIR HIRING IS GOING TO SLOW OR THEY MIGHT LAYPEOPLE OFF BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN THEIR MARGINS AND THEY WANT TO STAY IN BUSINESS, SO THAT IS WHY YOU SHOULD CARE.

IF THERE IS A RECESSION, LONG-TERM THAT THAT PROBABLY DOES BODE POORLY FOR HIRING.

>> YOU KNOW MSH MICHELLE, YOU WROATS AND I'M PARAFRAIDZING THAT MUSK AT TWITTER CONDUCTED A MASTER CLASS IN HOW NOT TO TREAT PEOPLE, THE PEOPLE, THE 3500 PEOPLE HE LAID OFF.

BASED ON YOUR EXPERIENCE, AND YOU DEAL WITH REAL PEOPLE ALL THE TIME, DOES THAT TRICKLE DOWN TO INSTILL FEAR, NOT IN PEOPLE WHO WORK FOR TWITTER, BUT PEOPLE WHO WORK IN OTHER BIG COMPANIES, WORRYING THAT THAT IS GOING TO BE ME NEXT?

>> YEAH, YOU KNOW, THE THING ABOUT IS WE KNOW HISTORICALLY WHEN COMPANY COMPANIES GET IN TROUBLE, THE FIRST THING AT THE LOOK TO IS LAYOFFS, YOU DON'T SEE MASS LAYOFFS, THE C.E.O.

TAKING A PAY CUT OFTENTIMES.

AND SO I DO THINK IT SHAKES PEOPLE'S CONFIDENCE IN THEIR OWN JOB.

AND MAYBE IT'S A GOOD WAKE-UP CALL FOR SOME FOLKS TO SAY IF IT COULD HAPPEN THERE, IT COULD HAPPEN TO ME.

I THINK THE WAY HE CONDUCTED IT WAS HORRIBLE, INHUMANE, NO EMPATHY.

YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE LEARNING ABOUT THEIR LIVELIHOODS ON TWITTER FROM A TWEET.

I MEAN I HAVE A BUSINESS, A MASTERS DEGREE IN BUSINESS.

AND IF I WAS IN CLASS RIGHT NOW TAKING MY COURSES, WE WOULD BE OUTRAGED.

IT WOULD BE A CASE STUDY.

YOU KNOW, YOU NEED TO BE HUMANE WITH PEOPLE.

IF YOU HAVE TO HAVE LAYOFFS, YOU KNOW, DO IT IN A WAY THAT DOESN'T MAKE PEOPLE FEEL THAT YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT THEM.

YOU SHOULD MAKE IT SEEM LIKE THIS IS THE LAST RESORT.

AND I'M SO, SO SORRY.

I MEAN HE'S GOT TIME TO-- HE SHOULD HAVE GOT ON THAT PRIVATE PLANE AND VITSED OR AT LEAST HAD A ZOOM CALL TO SAY I'M SORRY.

BECAUSE PART OF THE REASON WHY THEY ARE SUFFERING IS BECAUSE HE TOOK ON ALL THIS DEBT.

THE RICHEST MAN IN THE WORLD TAKING ON DEBT WHICH IMPACTED HIS WORKERS, REGULAR FOLKS LIVELIHOOD.

AND AS YOU CAN SEE, I'M PRETTY TICKED OFF ABOUT THATnd AND I DON'T EVEN WORK AT TWITTER.

I BELIEVE THAT YOU CAN DO IT I HAD A PERSON THAT I HAD TO LAYOFF ONE TIME BECAUSE THE COMPANY WAS DOWNSIZING AND IT WAS JUST BEFORE THE HOLIDAYS.

AND I SAID LISTEN, I'M NOT GOING TO LET THIS GIRL GO, THIS SINGLE MOTHER JUST BEFORE THE HOLIDAYS.

CAN WE KEEP HER ON, AT LEAST UNTIL THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR, GIVE HER SOME TIME.

AND THEY AGREED TO THAT.

AND THAT'S HOW YOU DO THINGS.

YOU CARE ABOUT PEOPLE.

ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE SO FRIKING WEALTHY.

I MEAN IT JUST, IT WAS-- IT IS A HORRIBLE SITUATION FOR THOSE FOLKS.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW, SPEAKING OF THAT PARTICULAR PERSON, DAN PRIMACK, HE URGED PEOPLE TO VOTE REPUBLICAN.

AND I GUESS THINGS DIDN'T GO QUITE AS WELL AS HE EXPECTED.

BUT EITHER ALREADY TODAY OR BY THE TIME WE GO TO BED THERE WILL BE A REPUBLICAN MAJORITY, SLIGHT MAJORITY IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT WILL MEAN FOR AUGUST THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT FOR THE LAST TEN MINUTES?

>> I DON'T THINK IT WILL MEAN ALL THAT MUCH.

BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A DEMOCRATIC SENATE AND OBVIOUSLY DEMOCRATIC WHITE HOUSE AND REPUBLICANS RUNNING THE HOUSE.

YOU KNOW, IT IS PEOPLE KIND OF IN THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY LEADING TOO THE ELECTION SAID, WERE ASSUMING REPUBLICAN WAS WIN BOTH CHAMBERS T WILL MEAN A LOT MORE IN TERMS OF OVERSIGHT, IN TERMS OF HEARINGS AND MAYBE EVEN BRINGING IN HEADS OF VARIOUS REGULATORY BODIES BUT IN TERMS MUCH ACTUAL LEGISLATION WHICH IS THE THING THAT OFTEN IMPACTS JOBS OR TAXES, ET CETERA, NOBODY IS EXPECTED A LOT OF ACTUAL LEGISLATION IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS.

>> DAN, I KNOW ONE OF YOUR AREAS OF EXPERTISE IS IN 30 YEAR OLD FORMER BILLIONAIRES, AM I NOT RIGHT ABOUT THAT.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> Braude: SO SAM BANKMAN FREED, THE 30 YEAR OLD HEAD OF FTX WHICH ESSENTIALLY COLLAPSED FILED FOR BANKRUPTCY, CHAPTER 11.

AND THE CRYPTO CURRENCY COMPANY, MOST OF US, MANY OF US HEARD OF WHEN WE FIRST SAW GUESS EL BUNDCHEN AND TOM BRADY ON TELEVISION.

CAN YOU DO LIKE A 60 SECOND.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR PEOPLE WHO WERE NOT INVOLVED IN THAT MARKET?

WHAT IS THE TRICKLE DOWN IMPACT IF ANYTHING.

>> IF YOU ARE NOT INVOLVED IN THAT MARKET, GOOD FOR YOU.

IT PROBABLY DOESN'T MEAN ALL THAT MUCH.

QUICKLY FOR THOSE T IS A VERY COMPLICATED STORY THAT EVEN THOSE INVESTORS IN FTX CAN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND.

THERE WILL BE LOTS OF LAWSUITS AND LITIGATION TO FIGURE IT OUT.

FTX WAS AN EXCHANGE, LIKE A STOCK EXCHANGE AND AS AN EXCHANGE IT SHOULD TAKE A LITTLE CUT OF EVERY TRADE AND SHOULDN'T BE LOSING MONEY, THAT IS WHY IT WAS PROFITABLE WHEN PEOPLE FIRST INVESTED IN T THE PROBLEM IS THE C.E.O.

ALSO HAD A HEDGE FUNDED SEPARATE WHICH PREDATED FTX.

AND IT APPEARS WHEN THE HEDGE FUNDED STARTED TO STRUGGLE, SAM TOOK EITHER USER MONEY OR OTHER MONEY FROM FTX, PUSHED IT INTO THE HEDGE FUNDED HOPING THE HEDGE FUNDED COULD SUCCEED AND HE COULD FILL THE HOLE, A LITTLE MADOFF THERE, UNFORTUNATELY THE HEDGE FUNDED CONTINUED TO STRUGGLE, THE HOLE GOT BIGGER, BIGGER, BIGGER AND A RIVAL CRYPTO CURRENCY ENTREPRENEUR KIND OF PUSHED ON TAYE LITTLE BIT BY SAYING HE WAS BASICALLY GOING SELL SOME SECURITIES.

AND WHILE THAT LITTLE PUSH MADE THE WHOLE HOUSE OF CARDS FALL DOWN.

FOR PEOPLE IN GENERAL, I MEAN, IT MEANS ONE THING FOR SURE, IF YOU ARE GOING TO INVEST IN CRYPTO CURRENCIES, DO IT IN A U.S.

REGULATED EXCHANGE.

YES, FTX HAS A U.S.

AFFILIATE WHICH WENT BANKRUPT BUT FOR THOSE WHO INVESTED IN FTX GLOBAL WHICH IS THE ONE BASED IN THE BAHAMAS THEY WILL HAVE A HARD TIME EVER GETTING THEIR MONEY BACK.

THERE ARE U.S. CRYPTO EXCHANGES.

I'M IN THE A KRIMENTO INVESTOR BUT IF YOU ARE GOING TO DO IT AT LEAST INVEST CRY VIA A REGULATED ONE.

>> I'M SURE IS HE HOME COULD MISS RATING WITH HIS NINE ROOMMATES.

HISH MICHELLE, YOU HAVE THE FINAL 30 SECONDS FOR WHAT YOU TOUCHED ON, FOR THE CONCERNED INDIVIDUAL WHO IS WORRIED THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO HIM.

HE IS GOING TO BE THE LAYOFFEE OR SHE S HOW DOES SHE OR OR HE PREPARE IN WAYS THAT WILL PROTECT THEM SHOULD THAT HAPPEN?

>> YEAH, I AM GOING SAY SOMETHING THAT SAY LITTLE BIT COUNTERINTUITIVE BECAUSE YOU KNOW ME, I'M VERY ANTI-DEBT BUT IF YOU ARE FACING A LAYOFF, PULL BACK ON ANY DEBT, AGGRESSIVE DEBT PLANS THAT YOU HAD.

BECAUSE ARE YOU GOING TO NEED TO STOCK PILE CASH.

AND SO YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVE MONEY ASIDE TO CARRY YOU THROUGH THE MONTHS WHERE YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE ANY INCOME.

>> FAIR ENOUGH, MICHELLE SINGLE TEAR, DAN PRIMACK, LARNED A LOT, REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU.

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT.

WE'LL BE BACK TOMORROW.

THANKS FOR WATCHING, AND PLEASE DON'T FORGET UKRAINE.

>> HEY, FOLKS.

TODAY WE'RE IN COPLEY SQUARE IN DOWNTOWN BOSTON.

USUALLY I'M THE GUY WHO ANSWERS YOUR QUESTIONS, BUT TODAY, YOU ARE GOING TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE UNWRITTEN RULES AND QUIRKS OF LIFE IN BOSTON.

>> NO RESPECTABLE BOSTONIAN CALLS IT BEANTOWN.

>> SOME PEOPLE CALL US THE "617" BECAUSE 617 IS THE BOSTON AREA CODE.

>> YEAH, THE BEAN.

>> WELL, THAT'S WHAT I'VE HEARD IT AS, THE BEAN.

>> BOSTON, THE BEAN.

BAKED BEANS, I DON'T KNOW.

>> WHEN I SEE THE MAILMAN, HE WEARS SHORTS.

YOU KNOW?

(LAUGHS) AND SOME OTHER PEOPLE WEAR SHORTS, I GUESS IT'S A FAD.

>> I NEVER COULD GET INTO SHORTS IN THE WINTER, BUT WE DO HAVE SOME BOSTONIANS THAT CAN DO THAT.

>> SHOW US IF YOU CAN HANG, IF YOU CAN HANDLE THE COLD.

>> I DEFINITELY RECOMMEND WEARING SHORTS.

>> THE STREETS AREN'T LIKE OTHER CITIES, LIKE HOW IT'S MORE GRID-LIKE.

OURS IS LITERALLY ALL OVER THE PLACE.

YOU COULD BE ON ONE STREET FOR A MINUTE AND THAT STREET WILL LITERALLY TURN INTO ANOTHER STREET AND YOU WON'T REALIZE IT.

THERE'S A LOT OF ONE WAYS.

THERE'S A LOT OF DEAD ENDS.

THERE'S A LOT OF CUL-DE-SACS.

>> DON'T DRIVE YOUR CAR FROM PLACE TO PLACE, IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK.

>> WHY IS THAT?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, YOU CAN'T GET PARKING, EVEN IF YOU WANTED IT WHERE YOU WANT IT.

AND SECONDLY, YOU'RE GOING TO BE FORCED TO SPEND WHAT YOU WOULD CONSIDER A MORTGAGE FOR YOUR HOUSE TO GET A PARKING SPACE.

>> I HAVE BEEN USING THE T, BUT IT'S SUPER SIMPLE FOR ME.

IT'S REALLY EASY.

IT GETS ME WHERE I'M GOING PRETTY FAST.

>> THE T IS FRUSTRATING.

IT'S GOING TAKE YOU ABOUT AN HOUR TO GET ANYWHERE ON IT.

IT'S GOING TAKE YOU A WHILE, SO BE PATIENT, RELAX, BRING A BOOK.

>> I FELT LIKE THIS IS A PRETTY ACCESSIBLE CITY BY FOOT.

(CAR HONKING) >> THERE'S SO MANY TIMES WHERE I'VE ALMOST RAN PEOPLE OVER FOR JAYWALKING AND THEN WE DO IT, SO... WHO WANTS TO GO FROM CORNER TO CORNER TO CROSS THE STREET?

I MEAN, IF I SEE THAT IT'S CLEAR, I JAYWALK.

>> ONE THING THEY DON'T TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION, IRON DON'T CRY.

>> JAYWALKING'S PART OF OUR REVOLUTIONARY SPIRIT.

THAT'S HOW WE KEEP IT ALIVE.

I'M VERY GOOD.

PERSONALLY, I'M VERY GOOD AT IT.

I HAVEN'T LOST ANYBODY NOW IN THREE WEEKS.

>> WELL, THERE YOU HAVE IT.

DON'T FORGET TO LIKE AND SUBSCRIBE, AND LET ME KNOW WHAT UNWRITTEN RULES OF BOSTON YOU LIVE BY, OR LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU'RE CURIOUS ABOUT, BECAUSE HEY, I MIGHT JUST LOOK INTO IT FOR YOU.

I'M EDGAR B. HERWICK III.

STAY CURIOUS OUT THERE.

>> THE "CURIOSITY DESK" IS