>> DO YOU THINK BOSTON HAS HEALED, GIVEN ALL THAT YOU HAVE SEEN?

>> I THINK BOSTON IS CONTINUING TO HEAL.

>> THE FIRST TIME -- THE FIRST THING I SAW WAS THAT THIS IS A SANDBOX THAT RYAN KUGLER -- RYAN COOGLER’S BUILDING AN ENORMOUS SAND CASTLE IN.

>> LIZ WALKER.

FIRST BLACK WOMAN ANCHOR HERE WITH ME.

PARIS: FOLKS MAY BE FAMILIAR WITH THE SAYING "JUST PAY IT AWAY," IT IS A COMMON RESPONSE, OFTEN FROM CHURCHFOLK, TO TRAUMA AND GRIEVING -- "JUST PRAY IT AWAY."

>> PRAYER IS WONDERFUL, BUT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT DEEP WOUNDS AND THE NEED FOR DEEPER HEALING, IT TAKES SOME WORK, SOME INNER WORK, SO WE ALWAYS SAY PRAYER IS NOT ENOUGH BY ITSELF.

PARIS: YOUR WHOLE ENTIRE BOOK IS ABOUT LOOKING AT THOSE DEEP, INNER WORKINGS OF HEALING, SPECIFICALLY COLLECTIVELY.

YOU START BY TALKING ABOUT THIS INTERFAITH SERVICE YOU HELPED LEAD IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE BOSTON MARATHON BOMBING.

YOU ALSO TALK ABOUT THE MURDER OF A YOUNG MAN NAMED CORY JOHNSON IN YOUR COMMUNITY, AND IN YOUR CHURCH CONGREGATION, HIS FAMILY AND WHAT THAT LOOKED LIKE PEER AND ALSO THINKING ABOUT YOUR CAREER AS A TITAN IN BOSTON NEWS’INDUSTRY, PAVING THE WAY FOR PEOPLE LIKE ME.

DO YOU THINK BOSTON HAS HEALED, GIVEN ALL THAT YOU HAVE SEEN?

>> I THINK BOSTON IS BEGINNING TO HEAL, BUT I THINK BOSTON, LIKE THE REST OF THIS COUNTRY, IS IN NEED OF HEALING, RACIAL HEALING, CULTURAL HEALING.

UNTIL THIS NATION FACES THE PAIN THAT IT HAS CAUSED AND GOES THROUGH, IT WILL NOT HEAL.

IT’S THE SAME FOR INDIVIDUALS.

EVERYBODY IS NOT WALKING AROUND WITH DEEP WOUNDS, BUT A LOT OF US ARE, AND WE USUALLY SUPPRESS AND IGNORE THEM, BUT WHAT WE SAY IS THAT WHEN YOU HAVE BEEN TRAUMATIZED BY A SITUATION, EXPERIENCE, OR WITNESSING SOMETHING, IT HAS TO BE DEALT WITH.

IT HAS TO BE ATTENDED TO, AND IF IT IS NOT TENDED, IT MAY BE SUPPRESSED FOR A WHILE, BUT IT WILL COME UP.

YOU MENTIONED CORY JOHNSON.

CORY JOHNSON WAS A YOUNG MAN IN OUR CHURCH WHO WAS KILLED IN WHAT I BELIEVE -- AND IT HAS NOT BEEN PROVEN YET OR SOLVED -- WAS SOME KIND OF GANG VIOLENCE, ONGOING GANG VIOLENCE.

HIS MURDER WAS NEVER SOLVED, SO HIS FAMILY AND FRIENDS ARE STILL WALKING AROUND WITH UNINTENDED WOUNDS THEMSELVES BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE ANY WAY OF KNOWING WHAT HAPPENED -- UNTENDED WOUNDS.

PARIS: YOU WRITE IN YOUR BOOK THAT YOU BELIEVE CHURCHES ARE SOME OF THE MOST UNIQUELY EQUIPPED INSTITUTIONS TO RESPOND TO THIS KIND OF COLLECTIVE GRIEF AND TRAUMA.

WHY IS THAT?

LIZ: I BELIEVE CHURCHES HAVE THE INHERENT ABILITY TO COPE WITH THOSE THINGS THAT WE CANNOT SEE, BUT BECOME OBSTACLES IN OUR LIVES.

I THINK CHURCHES ARE NOT DOING A GREAT JOB OF DEALING WITH THAT RIGHT NOW.

WE KNOW HOW TO WORSHIP, HOW TO DO THE BUSINESS OF CHURCH GROWTH AND OTHER THINGS, AND I’M SPEAKING OF THE CHURCH UNIVERSALLY, NOT ANY ONE CHURCH.

WHAT OUR PROGRAM DOES IS NOT A REPLACEMENT FOR CHURCHES, BUT IT REMINDS PEOPLE OF FAITH THAT ONE OF THE BASIC THINGS WE NEED TO DO IS HELP EACH OTHER HEAL.

PARIS: WHERE YOU INVITE PEOPLE IN TO SHARE A MEAL AND JUST LISTEN.

LOSE: AND NOT TO BE -- LIZ: AND NOT TO BE JUDGED BECAUSE CHURCHES CAN DO THAT.

PARIS: COME ON NOW.

LIZ: NOT TO BE CONDEMNED.

CHURCHES CAN DO THAT, CONDEMN EACH OTHER, PUT UP BARRIERS ACROSS OUR LIVES, BUT WE DO NOT LISTEN TO EACH OTHER AND ACCEPT THAT WE ARE ALL WOUNDED.

SO TALKING ABOUT IT HELPS.

WE SAY AT CAN WE TALK, THE PROGRAM WAS STARTED, WE CANNOT HEAL YOU IN TERMS OF FIXING YOUR PROBLEM.

WE CANNOT BRING A LOST LOVED ONE BACK, NOR ARE WE TRYING TO GET YOU CLOSER.

WE ARE TRYING TO FIND A WAY THROUGH, AND IT IS A UNIVERSAL NEED FOR COMMUNITY HEALING.

I THINK WHAT WE ARE ALL GOING THROUGH WITH COVID, WITH THE CURRENT POLITICAL SITUATION, WE ARE ALL GOING THROUGH TRAUMA RIGHT NOW AND FEAR OR JUST ANXIETY.

IF YOU HOLD IT IN, IT WILL COME BACK TO BITE YOU, SO THAT’S WHAT I BELIEVE WE OWE EACH OTHER, A WAY THROUGH TOGETHER.

PARIS: YOU HAVE PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH THIS.

IN THE BOOK, YOU TALK ABOUT YOUR OWN FAMILY, SPECIFICALLY YOUR FATHER WHO WAS A PASTOR WHO YOU LOST AT A YOUNG AGE, AND ALSO YOUR MOTHER WHO DIED GIVING BIRTH TO YOU.

HOW DID THOSE EXPERIENCES SHAPE THE WAY NOT ONLY THAT YOU MAY HAVE SILENCED YOUR GRIEF AND TRAUMA, BUT WHEN YOU BEGIN TO REALLY DIG DEEP INTO IT, WHAT WAS THAT PROCESS LIKE?

LIZ: I ONLY BEGAN TO DIG DEEPER WHEN I BECAME PART OF THIS PROGRAM.

I’M A SOCIAL JUSTICE ADVOCATE AND HAVE BEEN ALL MY LIFE AND YOU WANT TO HAVE PROGRAMS THAT HELP OTHER PEOPLE.

THIS IS ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE PROGRAMS, BUT IN COMING TO THESE GATHERINGS, AT FIRST WE DID THEM MONTHLY AND THEN WEEKLY BECAUSE THE PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY ASKED FOR THEM.

I LISTEN TO OTHER PEOPLE STORIES, AND SOMEHOW, BEGINNING TO THINK ABOUT MY OWN WOUNDS THAT I HAD NOT TALKED ABOUT.

I DON’T WANT TO CALL IT MAGIC, BUT THAT IS THE MYSTICAL PART OF THIS.

WHEN YOU HEAR ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE’S WOUNDS AND REALIZE THAT YOU HAVE YOUR OWN, THIS IS A WAY TO KIND OF DIG INTO THAT.

IN DOING THAT, I BEGAN TO TALK TO MY BROTHER.

WE HAD NEVER TALKED ABOUT OUR CHILDHOOD EVER, EVER, EVER.

AND YOU GREW UP IN LITTLE ROCK, ARKANSAS, IN THE 1950’S, DURING THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT AND SCHOOL DESEGREGATION, IT WAS JUST SOMETHING YOU HAD TO GET THROUGH.

YOU DID NOT EVER WANT TO LOOK BACK AT IT, BECAUSE IT WAS ROUGH .

IN TALKING ABOUT IT, WE REALIZED THAT WE BOTH HAD WOUNDS.

WE DID NOT EVEN KNOW THERE WAS ANOTHER MOTHER.

MY BROTHER WAS THREE WHEN SHE DIED.

I IMAGINE SHE WENT AWAY TO THE HOSPITAL TO HAVE ANOTHER BABY AND NEVER CAME BACK, AND HE STRUGGLED WITH THAT ALL HIS LIFE , AND I BELIEVE HE DIED WITH THAT STRUGGLE, BUT WE HAD BEGUN TO TALK ABOUT IT.

PARIS: HAD HE LIVED LONGER, WHAT DO YOU THINK A CONVERSATION WOULD HAVE BEEN LIKE?

LIZ: MY BROTHER STRUGGLE -- AND IT SOUNDS LIKE SHE’S GOING TO TELL ALL THE FAMILY SECRETS, BUT HE STRUGGLED WITH ALCOHOL.

HE NEVER DEALT WITH ANY OF HIS PAIN, SO I THINK HE KIND OF RAN OUT OF TIME BECAUSE OF HIS OWN ISSUES AND HIS OWN ILLNESSES, BUT IF WE HAD BEEN ABLE TO TALK ABOUT THAT, WE WOULD HAVE, I HOPE, AND ABLE TO GIVE HIM A WAY OUT OF HIS KIND OF PRISON OF ADDICTION, AND I KNOW THAT IS TRUE BECAUSE MANY OF THE PEOPLE WHO COME TO OUR PROGRAM ARE FROM THE RECOVERY COMMUNITY AND ARE JUST LOOKING FOR ANOTHER PLACE TO HELP THEM WORK THROUGH THEIR ISSUES.

PARIS: IT STRIKES ME WHAT YOU WERE SAYING ABOUT NEEDING TO CONFRONT YOUR OWN TRAUMA.

AS SOMEONE WHO IS DOING SOME HEALING -- WE KNOW PASTORS ARE OFTEN SEEN AS PEOPLE WHO HAVE A MAGICAL WAY OF DOING THIS, BUT THEY ARE STRUGGLING THEMSELVES.

A 2024 STUDY FOUND ONE IN FIVE SENIOR PASTORS OF PROTESTANT CHURCHES REPORTED THAT THEY HAD CONTEMPLATED SELF HARM OR SUICIDE AND AN ADDITIONAL 47% REPORTED FEELING LONELY OR ISOLATED.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT BEING A COMMUNITY AND BEING ABLE TO LEAN ON ONE ANOTHER, HOW DOES NOT ONLY IN YOUR PERSONA AS A PASTOR, BUT KNOWING YOU ARE THIS BIG ICON IN BOSTON AT THE TIME YOU ARE STARTING THIS, RIGHT?

WHAT DO YOU WANT SUPPORT FOR THE HEALERS TO LOOK LIKE?

LIZ: I WANT THE HEALERS TO REALIZE WE ARE ALL WOUNDED.

I’M TALKING ABOUT FIREMEN.

I’M TALKING ABOUT POLICEMAN OR POLICE PEOPLE.

I DON’T KNOW THE POLITICALLY CORRECT WAY.

WE ARE ALL CARRYING BURDENS, NOT ONLY OURS BUT OTHER PEOPLES.

PREACHERS ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS.

WE HAVE THE BIBLE.

WE HAVE THE PROTESTANT TRADITION.

WE TELL YOU HOW TO GET THROUGH THINGS, BUT WE CARRY YOUR WOUNDS.

THE PASTOR OF THE CHURCH THAT I TOOK OVER, ROXBURY PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH, UNTIL HE RECOGNIZED HIS OWN NEED FOR HEALING -- BECAUSE HE HAD BEEN THE PASTOR FOR THIS WHOLE COMMUNITY.

HE TOLD ME RECENTLY THAT THEY YEAR HE LEFT THE CHURCH, HE SAID HE WAS LEAVING FOR A BETTER JOB AND THAT’S HOW I GOT THERE, BUT IN FACT, HE WAS LEAVING BECAUSE HE WAS WOUNDED BY ALL THE THINGS THAT HAD HAPPENED, AND HE ONLY TOLD ME THAT RECENTLY.

I THINK HE HAD 30 SEVEN FUNERALS IN ONE YEAR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

35 FUNERALS.

ABOUT THAT.

YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT ALMOST EVERY WEEK, HE IS BURYING SOMEBODY, AND MANY OF THEM YOUNG PEOPLE.

CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT THAT DOES TO HIS PSYCHE?

WORST OF ALL, HE IS THERE TO HELP PEOPLE.

MAYBE HE THINKS HE IS THERE TO SAVE PEOPLE, AND HE IS LOSING YOUNG PEOPLE.

THINK ABOUT A FIREFIGHTER.

WE KNOW THAT.

THINK ABOUT A POLICE OFFICER WHO HAS TO GO IN AND SEE THE THINGS THEY HAVE TO SEE, AND THINK ABOUT ALCOHOLISM, ALL THE ADDICTIONS THAT ARE PART OF THOSE KINDS OF JOBS, AND I KNOW THAT THERE ARE THERAPISTS AVAILABLE AND NOW THEY ARE TRYING TO DEAL WITH MENTAL HEALTH, BUT OUR PROGRAM IS MUCH EASIER THAN THAT BECAUSE WE ARE SAYING, LET’S JUST GET TOGETHER, CREATE A SAFE SPACE, RECONNECT.

LET IT BE ANONYMOUS.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT TAKING NOTES OR CHECKING THAT IN WITH US, BUT WHY NOT CREATE THESE SAFE SPACES EVERYWHERE.

YOU CAN JUST STEP IN WHEN YOU WANT TO.

IF YOU NEED IT, WE ARE THERE.

I THINK IT HELPS US RESTORE COMMUNITY.

PARIS: MM LIZ:.

I THINK IT IS HELPFUL FOR EVERYBODY, ESPECIALLY THOSE EXPOSED TO SECONDARY TRAUMA.

PARIS: WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THOSE IN THE COMMUNITY AFFECTED BY VARIOUS PROBLEMS, POVERTY, COMMUNITY VIOLENCE, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE OTHER RESOURCES THAT NEED TO BE PUT IN PLACE, ESPECIALLY THE COVERAGE OF THESE COMMUNITIES IN YOUR CAREER?

LIZ: ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK WE CAN DO AS A LARGER COMMUNITY IS HELP DESTIGMATIZE MENTAL HEALTH.

YOU HEAR ABOUT A MASS SHOOTING AND THEY SAY WE ARE GOING TO PUT THAT 17-YEAR-OLD IN PRISON AND HE IS NEVER GOING TO -- THAT KID IS UNWELL.

I’M NOT SAYING HE DOES NOT HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR HIS ACTIONS, BUT WE NEED TO CHANGE THE NARRATIVE OF WHAT IS HAPPENING.

THAT IS A RESOURCE WE NEED TO MAKE AVAILABLE IN EVERY COMMUNITY SO WE CAN BEGIN TO SEE OURSELVES DIFFERENTLY AND SEE OUR STRUGGLES.

WE CRIMINALIZE EVERYTHING AND WE BUILD BIGGER PRISONS AND GIVE MORE LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND AGAIN, PEOPLE WANT TO FEEL SAFE AND I GET THAT, BUT I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK A LITTLE BIT CLOSER AND DEEPER AT THE CORE.

I ALWAYS TAKE IT BACK TO OPRAH WINFREY -- HARRIS: THERE’S ALWAYS AN OVER CONNECTION.

-- PARIS: THERE’S ALWAYS ON OPRAH CONNECTION.

LIZ: THE GODDESS OF LIFE.

IF YOU CAN CHANGE THE NARRATIVE, ASK FOR AND QUESTIONS, I THINK PEOPLE WILL GENUINELY HEAL.

THERE’S SO MANY REASONS THAT WE ARE OFFKILTER RIGHT NOW AND FEEL ISOLATED AND FEEL ANXIOUS AND FEEL ALONE, BUT THERE IS A WAY THROUGH.

THE THING I THINK IS THE BEST RESOURCE IS OUR OWN ABILITIES.

WE FOUND THAT HEALING IS ABOUT BREATHING DEEPER.

PARIS: RIGHT?

WHICH IS SOMETHING WE DO SUBCONSCIOUSLY BUT FORGET ABOUT IT.

LIZ: WE ALL BREATHE SO SHALLOWLY.

IT IS ABOUT MOVEMENT, AND A LOT OF CONTEMPLATIVE THINGS ABOUT OUR HERITAGE.

IT’S ABOUT EXERCISE.

IT’S ABOUT EATING RIGHT.

IT’S ABOUT TAKING THE TIME TO EXERCISE ALL THE OTHER WAYS THAT CAN HELP YOU IN YOUR WELL BEING AND EMPHASIZING THAT, NOT JUST AS A SIDEBAR OR ANYTHING FOR RICH PEOPLE OR SOME TOUCHY-FEEL THAT TOUCHY--- TOUCHY-FEELY THING.

PEOPLE SAY I DON’T WANT TO GIVE UP.

WE SAY JUST CATCH HER BREATH.

TAKE IN WHAT IT MEANS TO BE IN A COMMUNITY THAT IS SUPPORTING YOU.

THIS IS WONDERFUL I CAN TALK ABOUT THIS WITH YOU.

THANK YOU.

PARIS: ANY TIME.

THANK YOU FOR SHARING.

JAMES: FOR A FILMMAKER TO SEE A MOVIE LIKE "SINNERS," AND SAY I WANT TO TRY TO MAKE SOMETHING WEIRD AND SWEATY AND HORNY AND SCARY -- >> WE’VE BEEN GONE A LONG TIME.

WE BACK NOW.

>> YOU TWINS?

>> NO -- NAW, WE COUSINS.

PARIS: "SINNERS" WAS ALREADY ONE OF THE TOP GROSSING FILMS OF THE YEAR.

WHY HAS THIS BEEN SUCH A SUCCESS CAP AND JAMES: BECAUSE IT IS FRESH.

I REMEMBER WHEN I SAW THE TRAILER FOR THIS.

I THINK IT WAS SOMETIMES -- SOME TIME LAST FALL.

I BARELY REGISTERED THAT IT WAS MICHAEL B. JORDAN, BARELY REGISTERED THAT IT WAS RYAN COOGLER.

I WAS LIKE, I DON’T KNOW WHAT I JUST SAW, BUT I CAN PROMISE I’M GOING TO SEE IT WITHIN THREE DAYS OF OPENING.

PARIS: I DID NOT EVEN KNOW PRIOR TWO WEEKS TO THE FILM’S RELEASE -- I DID NOT KNOW IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A HORROR MOVIE UNTIL THE DAY I WENT TO SEE IT, WHICH RAISES QUESTIONS, RIGHT?

I THINK IT IS KEEPING SOME PEOPLE FROM SEEING IT BECAUSE OF THE HORROR IMPACT, BUT IT IS SO MUCH MORE THAN THAT.

JAMES: IT IS SO MUCH MORE THAN A HORROR MOVIE BECAUSE IT IS ALSO THIS REALLY RICH WORLD THAT RYAN COOGLER HAS BEEN ABLE TO BUILD IN RURAL MISSISSIPPI IN THE 1930’S.

IT IS TAKING YOU TO A PLACE THAT IS NOT DIVORCED, RIGHT, FROM TRAUMA OR RACISM OR POVERTY, BUT THAT’S NOT THE POINT OF US AS VIEWERS VISITING THAT TOWN.

THE POINT OSTENSIBLY UNTIL THINGS GO HARD LEFT IS TO QUITE LITERALLY HAVE A GOOD TIME DESPITE, POSSIBLY IN DESPITE OF ALL OF THAT.

QUITE LITERALLY BUILDING A CENTER FOR DEPARTURE IS JOY.

PARIS: ABSOLUTELY.

DEBAUCHERIES -- DEBAUCHERIES -- DEBAUCHEROUS BLACK JOY.

I BORROWED SOMETHING FROM "THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER" WHO SUMMED IT UP NICELY THINKING ABOUT QUESTIONS OF OWNERSHIP WITHIN THE FILM, THINKING ABOUT THE OWNERSHIP OF MUSIC EVEN THE MAKING OF THIS FILM, SO A BIG PART OF THIS HAS BEEN RYAN COOGLER’S DEAL IN WHICH HE WILL OWN THE RIGHTS TO THIS FILM 25 YEARS FROM NOW.

I THINK QUENTIN TARANTINO IS THE ONLY OTHER DIRECTOR WHO HAS DONE SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

JAMES: I DON’T KNOW IF ONLY OTHER IS THE CASE, BUT MAYBE ONE OF THE MORE RECENT.

PARIS: I SEE.

PEOPLE ARE PUSHING BACK.

A LOT OF HOLLYWOOD EXECS ARE LIKE THIS IS UNPRECEDENTED AND WILL KILL THE INDUSTRY.

TO ME, THAT IS AKIN TO THE SCENE WE SEE IN THE MOVIES -- SORRY ABOUT THE SPOILERS, DON’T WATCH THIS IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN IT YET -- BUT THAT SCENE WHERE WE REALIZE EVEN THOUGH THE SMOKESTACK TWINS HAVE BOUGHT THIS PLACE THAT THEY WANT TO MAKE THE CENTER OF BLACK JOY, THERE IS STILL THE BEAVER -- THE PEOPLE -- THERE IS STILL THE EVIL.

IT’S NOT JUST A VAMPIRE.

JAMES: THE CLAN IS THE BAD GUY.

IT’S NOT JUST THE SUPERNATURAL PEOPLE FROM BEYOND THE WALL IS COMING TO KILL US ALL, AND YOU’RE THINKING, SHOULDN’T YOU ALL NIGHT TO GET RID OF THAT THING, AND OBVIOUSLY, THEY DON’T IN THAT FRANCHISE, BUT IN THIS MOVIE, YES, YOU HAVE THE VAMPIRE THREAT, AND THESE PEOPLE STILL WANT TO COME AND STEAL WHAT THEY DISHONESTLY SAID YOU COULD HAVE.

THAT’S CRAZY.

THE THING ABOUT THE DEAL TO ME THAT REALLY STICKS OUT IS THE FACT THAT THE STUDIOS ARE -- THERE’S A STORY THAT STUDIO EXECS ARE SCARED THAT THIS WILL RESHAPE THE FINANCIAL LANDSCAPE OF THE FILM INDUSTRY, AND I’M THINKING ABOUT IT AS A OPPORTUNITY.

FOR A FILMMAKER TO SEE A MOVIE LIKE "SINNERS," AND THINK, I WANT TO TRY TO MAKE SOMETHING WEIRD AND SWEATY AND HORNY AND SCARY.

PARIS: WHAT YOU THINK IS THE MESSAGE COOGLER IS SENDING TO BLACK CREATIVE’S?

JAMES: THERE’S TWO DIFFERENT MESSAGES.

THEY ARE KIND OF COMPLEMENTARY.

THERE IS ONE CASE OF ONCE YOU PUT IN YOUR WORK AND YOU PROVE YOUR WORTH, MAKE YOUR NEXT PROJECT YOUR PLAYGROUND.

THE OTHER WOULD BE JUST SAY, "SCREW IT," AND MAKE THE WHOLE THING A GIANT PLAYGROUND FROM THE START.

THIS IS A SANDBOX THAT RYAN COOGLER IS BUILDING AN ENORMOUS SAND CASTLE IN WITH AS MANY RESOURCES AND WHIMS HE MAY CHOOSE TO DRAW FROM.

RYAN COOGLER IS AN INCREDIBLE FILMMAKER, BUT HE HAS BEEN WORKING IN KIND OF AN IP BOX FOR PRETTY MUCH HIS ENTIRE CAREER.

"FRUITVALE’S -- "FRUITVALE STATION" WAS A REAL UNIVERSE.

"CREED" IS IN THE ROCKY UNIVERSE.

"BLACK PANTHER" IS IN THE MARVEL UNIVERSE.

THIS IS A CHANCE FOR HIM TO SAY THESE ARE THE SKILLS I HAVE.

MY MOVIES WORK.

THEY ARE ARTISTICALLY FULFILLING.

I’M GOING TO MAKE SOMETHING HAPPEN.

REMEMBER, TOO, WHEN HE MADE "CREED," HE WAS $200,000 IN DEBT, AND YOU COULD TELL THERE WAS THIS HUNGER.

HE WAS LIKE, I MISSED SO MUCH OF LIFE WORKING FOR THESE OTHER FRANCHISES.

THE NEXT THING I DO IS GOING TO BE MINE.

PARIS: LOTS TO THINK ABOUT THERE.

WE WANT TO HEAR WHAT YOU THOUGHT ABOUT "SINNERS."

DROP US A LINE AND LET US KNOW.

NEXT, TERESA THOMPSON MAYNARD KNEW HOW TO MAKE A GOOD CUPCAKE BUT HAD NO IDEA HOW TO MAKE A GOOD BAKERY.

I MET HER TO LEARN WHAT IT TOOK TO LAUNCH HER DREAM.

>> THAT IS NOT BAD FOR YOUR FIRST TRY.

PARIS: NOT BAD.

[LAUGHTER] EVER SINCE I WAS LITTLE, I HAVE LOVED MAKING WITH THE WOMEN IN MY FAMILY, ESPECIALLY MY MOM.

TODAY, I’M HERE TO DO THAT WITH TERESA THOMPSON MAYNARD OF SWEET TEEZ BAKERY.

YOUR KIDS WERE PART OF THE REASON YOU STARTED THIS BUSINESS.

TERESA: WHAT I WAS PREGNANT WITH MY THIRD CHILD, HAD A CUPCAKE PROBLEM.

AND I HAVE A NUT ALLERGY SO I COULD NOT JUST WALK INTO A BAKERY AND GET A SLICE OF CAKE BECAUSE IT WAS DANGEROUS.

AROUND 3:00, ONE OF THE SNACK, AND I HAD THE BABY AND I’M STILL MAKING 3:00 SNACKS, AND IT IS STILL A SITUATION.

I WAS WORKING HARD DOING DATA ANALYTICS AND DEVELOPMENT.

FUN STUFF.

BUT I WAS LIKE, I WANT TO DO SOMETHING I LOVE EVERY DAY.

HAD NO CLUE HOW TO START A BAKERY.

PARIS: AT COMMONWEALTH KITCHEN, SHE LEARNED.

MY DAD TOLD ME DON’T BE AROUND WORKING PEOPLE AND NOT BE DOING NOTHING.

TERESA: ENTREPRENEURSHIP CAN BE VERY WELL-MEANING AND CRAZY AND YOU’RE LIKE, IS THIS REAL LIFE?

IT’S NICE TO HAVE PEOPLE FIGURE THAT OUT WITH.

PARIS: HOW IS THAT?

I HAVE A HEAVY HAND SOMETIMES.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE TAKE AWAY FOR AN ASPIRING BUSINESS OWNER, BLACK BUSINESS OWNER, MINORITY BUSINESS OWNER WHO WANTS TO SEE THEMSELVES IN YOUR SHOES ONE DAY BUT ONCE IT RIGHT NOW?

TERESA: YOU HAVE TO BE WILLING TO FAIL SMALL TO SUCCEED BIG.

SOMETIMES PEOPLE START AND THINK, WHY ISN’T IT WORKING?

I THINK THE PERCEPTION OF FAILURE IN DOING THIS BUSINESS HAS CHANGED.

THE THINGS THAT MATTER, ESPECIALLY IN BLACK-OWNED BUSINESSES, IT IS SUPER IMPORTANT TO ENCOURAGE AND COLLABORATE WITH EACH OTHER.

>> THESE ARE OUR BANANA SHEET CAKES.

TERESA: A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE WILL ASK THE QUESTION, HOW LONG HAVE YOU WORKED WITH SWEET TEEZ?

I’M LIKE, SINCE I STARTED IT.

THEY ARE LIKE, YOU ARE THE OWNER?

YES, LITTLE, OLD ME.

I DO NOT FIT THE PROFILE OF WHAT PEOPLE THINK A SUCCESSFUL BAKERY OWNER LOOKS LIKE.

I THINK PEOPLE UNDERESTIMATE MINORITY-OWNED BUSINESSES ALL THE TIME, ESPECIALLY BLACK-OWNED BUSINESSES, BUT I’M LIKE, HEY, YOU DON’T HAVE TO KNOW HOW GREAT I AM, BUT I’M GOING TO SHOW YOU.

>> SWEET TEEZ!

TERESA: TO BE ON "GOOD MORNING AMERICA" WAS AMAZING.

YOU HAVE THIS IDEA AND THEN SOMETHING LIKE THAT HAPPENS, AND YOU ARE JUST LIKE, DID THIS REALLY HAPPEN?

PEOPLE WERE COMING TO THE KITCHEN AND BUYING PIES AT THE FRONT DOOR.

IT WAS WILD.

NICE, FLAKY CRUST.

WE ARE DOING THIS.

>> LET’S DO IT.

SWEET TEEZ --TERESA: OK. LET ME GET YOU SOME GLOVES.

YOU ARE GOING TO TAKE THIS AND PULL IT.

PARIS: OK. TERESA: ONE OF THE THINGS I FEEL LIKE ENTREPRENEURS OF COLOR DON’T WANT TO DO IS ASK QUESTIONS BECAUSE YOU DON’T WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING.

THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WERE RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE WHO WANT TO HELP YOU, BUT IF YOU DON’T ASK, THEY ARE NOT GOING TO KNOW.

THIS IS NOT BAD.

SHE’S LIKE, I TRIED.

PARIS: I TRIED IT.

TERESA: TAKE ALL THIS EXCESS OFF.

PARIS: YOU ARE SO GENTLE, SO SWEET.

TERESA: YOU ARE JUST GOING TO PULL ALL THAT OFF.

PARIS: TA-DA!

THE JOY OF BAKING.

WHERE DO YOU HOPE TO TAKE SWEET TEEZ?

TERESA: REALLY TO BEGIN TEACHING IN BOSTON.

I A BOSTON GIRL, BUT I WOULD LOVE TO GROW THE BUSINESS TO WHERE WE HAVE MULTIPLE LOCATIONS AND WE ARE ABLE TO HIRE PEOPLE.

IF I DO IT BIG ENOUGH, IT WILL BE ABLE TO CHANGE MULTIPLE PEOPLE’S LIVES, AND I WOULD HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH THAT, WHICH IS AMAZING.

THIS IS ONE THING I DID WITH MY LIFE WHERE I WAS LIKE, EVEN IF I FAIL, I’VE GOT TO TRY.

I’VE GOT TO AT LEAST SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

THE FIRST TWO YEARS, YOU LIKE, MAN, I GAVE UP A REGULAR PAYCHECK FOR THIS?

BUT IT GETS BETTER.

I’M DOING SOMETHING BIGGER THAN MYSELF.

IT’S BIGGER THAN SELLING CAKES.

IT’S ABOUT I WANT CHILDREN THAT LOOK LIKE ME TO SEE ME DOING WHAT I DO IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND TO KNOW THAT THAT IS POSSIBLE.

YOU DID A GOOD JOB, PARIS.

PARIS: THANK YOU.

THAT’S VERY NICE OF YOU.

OK, MAYBE I WON’T GO INTO A BAKING CAREER JUST YET, BUT LOVING WHAT YOU DO, I CAN CERTAINLY GET WITH THAT.

DO YOU HAVE A LABOR OF LOVE?

WE WOULD LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU.

MAYBE WE WILL FEATURE YOU ON OUR SHOW.

AS WE ASK WHAT KEEPS YOU ROUTED AND WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT MATTER TO YOU, WE WANT TO KNOW.

CHECK US OUT ON INSTAGRAM, YOUTUBE, AND RIGHT HERE EVERY TUESDAY NIGHT AT 7:30.

FROM ALL OF US HERE AT GBH "ROOTED," I’M PARIS ALSTON.

HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.

-- I’M PARIS ALSTON