>> I HAVE BEEN OUT, IN THE STREETS, TALKED TO REPORTERS, WRITTEN ARTICLES, SPOKE TO ELECTED OFFICIALS.

I DON’T KNOW WHAT MORE I CAN PERSONALLY DO.

>> EVERY TIME THERE IS PROGRESS, THERE IS REGRESSION.

THE MOVEMENT GENERALLY SPEAKING IS TOWARD PROGRESS.

>> HEY, HOW IS IT GOING?

PRETTY GOOD.

LET’S DO THIS.

PARIS: HELLO, HELLO AND WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

HERE AT "GBH NEWS ROOTED" WE SERVE UP BLACK INTELLECT CULTURE AND JOY.

THAT INCLUDES A SAMPLER OF WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE WORLD AROUND US.

EACH WEEK WE BREAK DOWN STORIES BUZZING IN OUR COMMUNITIES, SO LET’S GET INTO IT.

DOZENS OF WHITE SOUTH AFRICANS ARRIVED IN THE U.S.

THIS MONTH FOLLOWING PRESIDENT TRUMP’S EXECUTIVE ORDER GRANTING THEM REFUGEE STATUS.

TRUMP CLAIMS THE WHITE ETHNIC MINORITY THAT ONCE LED APARTHEID IS SUBJECT TO RACIAL DISCRIMINATION IN THEIR HOME COUNTRY.

THE PRESIDENT ARGUES THAT A POLICY AIMED AT REDUCING ECONOMIC INEQUALITY IN SOUTH AFRICA IS TARGETING ITS WHITE CITIZENS, SO HIS ADMINISTRATION IS MAKING IT EASIER FOR THEM TO COME HERE.

THIS COMES AS THE PRESIDENT IS CLOSING THE BORDER TO ALL OTHER REFUGEES.

THERE IS A LOT OF SPECULATION ABOUT HOW THE CELTICS ROSTER COULD CHANGE IN THE OFFSEASON, NOW THAT THEIR HOPES OF WINNING A REPEAT CHAMPIONSHIP TITLE HAVE COME TO AN END.

IT IS STILL NOT CLEAR WHAT THE RECOVERY TIMELINE IS FOR JAYSON TATUM FOLLOWING HIS ACHILLES TEAR IN GAME 4 OF THE TEAM'S SERIES WITH THE KNICKS.

HE COULD MISS A SIGNIFICANT CHUNK OF NEXT SEASON.

NOT TO MENTION, HE AND JAYLEN BROWN'S MORE THAN $50 MILLION DOLLAR CONTRACTS FOR THE 2025-2026 SEASON COULD PUSH THE C'S TO MAKE SOME CHANGES FOR FINANCIAL REASONS, BECAUSE THE C'S ARE SET TO HAVE ONE OF THE MOST EXPENSIVE ROSTERS EVER ACROSS ALL SPORTS.

AL HORFORD WILL ALSO BE A FREE AGENT AFTER HIS CONTRACT EXPIRES THIS SUMMER.

SO NEEDLESS TO SAY THE C'S GOT , SOME DECISIONS TO MAKE, AND WE'LL BE KEEPING AN EYE ON THINGS AS THEY DO.

A STATUE OF A FICTIONAL BLACK WOMAN IN NEW YORK’S TIMES SQUARE HAS BECOME THE SUBJECT OF INTENSE DEBATE.

IT'S CALLED “GROUNDED IN THE STARS,” AND IT'S BY LONDON-BASED SCULPTOR THOMAS J PRICE.

CRITICS ARE CALLING IT DEI, AND HAVE DUBBED THE STATUE AN “ANGRY BLACK WOMAN.” SOME ARE PUSHING FOR ITS REMOVAL, SAYING IT STEREOTYPES BLACK WOMEN'S FEATURES AND DEMEANOR.

OTHERS SAY THOSE PEOPLE ARE JUST MAD BECAUSE THE SCULPTURE DEPICTS A FULL-FIGURED WOMAN.

WHO IS UNBOTHERED.

HERE IN BOSTON WE KNOW A LITTLE BIT ABOUT PUBLIC ART BECOMING A BIG TOPIC OF DISCUSSION.

ONE THING TO REMEMBER: PUBLIC ART IS SUPPOSED TO GET PEOPLE TALKING, AFTER ALL.

AND SPEAKING OF GETTING PEOPLE TALKING.

ARE REDHEADS CONSIDERED BLACK?

ONE TIKTOK CREATOR SAYS YES: >> ALL GENDERS ARE BLACK PEOPLE.

PARIS: CREATOR @DEIARATHEROOTWORKER KICKED OFF THE “GINGERS ARE BLACK” TREND, WHICH PLAYFULLY ARGUES THAT BECAUSE REDHEADS HAVE HISTORICALLY FACED PREJUDICE, THEY ARE AKIN TO BLACK FOLKS.

THAT HAS A BUNCH OF GINGERS POSTING TIKTOK VIDEOS LIKE THIS ONE.

>> I’M JUST YOUR GINGER FROM ANOTHER MISTER.

I DON’T KNOW WHAT THE SAYING WOULD BE.

WE CAN BE FRIENDS NOW.

HOLLA AT YA GINGER.

PARIS: OF COURSE THIS IS NOT MEANT TO BE TAKEN LITERALLY, AT LEAST I DON’T THINK SO.

BUT IT'S STILL RUBBING SOME PEOPLE THE WRONG WAY.

>> ONE GUY SAID, CAN I COME TO THE BARBECUE NOW?

WE DON’T HAVE BARBECUES, WE HAVE COOKOUTS.

PARIS: DO YOU THINK GINGERS ARE BLACK?

OR ARE THERE ANY OTHER STORIES YOU'RE PAYING ATTENTION TO?

DROP US A LINE!

HOW ARE YOU FEELING FIVE YEARS LATER?

DEEP SIGH, ANCESTRAL SIGH.

>> THE ENTIRETY OF MY ADULT LIFE HAS BEEN WAITING FOR WHAT’S TO COME.

PARIS: FIVE YEARS AFTER GEORGE FLOYD’S MURDER AND THE RACIAL RECKONING OF 2020, A PEW RESEARCH STUDY FINDS THAT MOST, 72% TO BE EXACT, OF AMERICANS, NOTHING HAS CHANGED.

WHAT EXACTLY HAPPENED, WHAT DO YOU THINK, RON?

RON: NOTHING HAS CHANGED.

THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR YEARS.

AS A BLACK MAN, I FEEL IT ALL THE TIME.

WHEN I WAKE UP IN THE MORNING I HAVE TO FIGURE OUT, WHAT AM I GOING TO WEAR, DO?

WHEN I’M AROUND POLICE OFFICERS I FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE.

IT IS SOMETHING THAT IS SYSTEMIC.

PARIS: WAS I DIFFERENT BEFORE 2020?

WAS THAT THE CASE PRE-2020?

RON: NO, THAT HAS BEEN LIKE THAT ALWAYS, IT IS JUST AFFECTING OTHER COMMUNITIES NOW.

WE HAVE THE NEW ADMINISTRATION TAKING FOLKS OUT OF THEIR HOMES AND TREATING THEM HARSHLY.

BUT THAT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR BLACK PEOPLE FOR YEARS.

PARIS: AND YOU’RE PART OF THE BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT AND HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS WORK FOR A LONG TIME.

HOW DOES IT LOOK FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, THE LAST FIVE YEARS?

DAUNASIA: I AGREE WITH FOLKS WHO SAY NOT ENOUGH HAS CHANGED.

WE ARE STILL FIGHTING THE SAME FIGHT THE BLACK PANTHERS WERE FIGHTING.

WE ARE WORRIED ABOUT FAIR EDUCATION FOR OUR KIDS AND FAIR AND AFFORDABLE HOUSING, THE BASICS AND SURVIVING AS A COMMUNITY, INVESTING IN OURSELVES AND SUPPORTING EACH OTHER.

I THINK PEOPLE ARE RIGHT THAT NOT ENOUGH HAS CHANGED IN THE PAST FIVE YEARS, THE PAST 55 YEARS, PERHAPS LONGER THAN THAT.

PARIS: AND THERE WAS A REPORT ABOUT HOW THINGS HAVE FARED FOR BLACK AMERICANS FIVE YEARS SINCE 2020.

HOW WOULD YOU SAY THE URBAN LEAGUE IS NAVIGATING THIS MOMENT WHEN PEOPLE ARE FEELING LIKE NOTHING HAS IMPROVED?

RAHSAAN: WE ARE COMMITTED TO OUR D3 CAMPAIGN, DEFENDING DEMOCRACY, DIVERSITY AND DEFEATING POP -- POVERTY.

LIKE POINTED OUT, SOME OF THE EXPERIENCES OF BLACK PEOPLE PRE-2020, THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD AND BREONNA TAYLOR AND OTHERS IS CONSISTENT WITH WHAT WE ARE EXPERIENCING TODAY.

THAT IS WHY IT IS THE RULE OF CIVIL RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS TO CONTINUE TO DO THAT ADVOCACY.

THERE HAVE BEEN SOME CHANGES AND LAWS IMPLEMENTED BUT THE DAY-TO-DAY EXPERIENCE OF PEOPLE, PARTICULARLY BLACK PEOPLE LIVING IN POVERTY, HAS NOT SIGNIFICANTLY CHANGED.

PARIS: YOU JUMPED INTO ALL THIS AT A YOUNG AGE.

DO YOU MIND ME ASKING HOW OLD YOU WERE IN 2020?

HODAN: [INDISCERNIBLE] A BABY.

I WAS ORGANIZING AND IT HAPPENED BY ACCIDENT.

I HAD JUST FINISHED SCHOOL AND SAW ALL THE RHETORIC ONLINE.

I’M PART OF THE GENERATION THAT GREW UP ON THE INTERNET THAT WATCHED THIS HAPPEN IN REAL-TIME, WATCHED BLACK BODIES ON TWITTER EVERY SINGLE DAY.

IN 2020, IT JUST FELT LIKE WE SHOULD SAY SOMETHING, OUR VOICES DO MATTER.

THAT IS THE FIRST TIME WHERE I FELT LIKE WE SHOULD ALL BE USING OUR INDIVIDUAL VOICES NO MATTER HOW YOUNG WE ARE, HOW MUCH EXPERIENCE WE HAVE.

WE JUST DID IT.

WE DID NOT KNOW WHAT WE WERE GETTING OURSELVES INTO, BUT WE THREW OURSELVES IN.

PARIS: HOW ARE YOU FEELING FIVE YEARS LATER?

DEEP SIGH.

DEEP ANCESTRAL SIGH.

HODAN: IT DOES NOT FEEL LIKE MUCH HAS CHANGED.

THE ENTIRETY OF MY ADULT LIFE HAS BEEN WAITING FOR THIS CHANGE TO COME, WAITING FOR THIS CHANGE WE HAVE BEEN FIGHTING FOR TO COME.

PEOPLE OLDER THAN ME WILL SAY THIS EXHAUSTING.

I’M 26 YEARS OLD AND I’M EXHAUSTED.

I DON’T SEE CHANGE COMING, I DON’T SEE ANYTHING CHANGING.

IT IS HARD FEELING LIKE NO MATTER WHAT WE DO, HOW LOUD WE SCREAM OR USE OUR VOICES, EVERYTHING KIND OF STAYS THE SAME.

DAUNASIA: I DO WANT US TO RECOGNIZE THERE IS A BACKLASH TO THE WORK WE HAVE DONE.

OUR WORK IS NOT NECESSARILY IN VAIN IN TERMS OF PROGRESS WE WANT, BUT THAT WORK HAS BEEN RECOGNIZED AND THERE IS COUNTERACTION.

THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE SEEN WITH THIS NEW ADMINISTRATION.

>> ALSO, OUR HISTORY IS BEING ERASED.

WE ARE DOING MARCHES, RALLIES, GETTING OUT INFORMATION.

BUT THERE IS ANOTHER SIDE.

WE ARE NOT BEING SO-CALLED RACIALLY PROFILED, BUT OUR HISTORY IS BEING ERASED.

I LOVE THIS PANEL BECAUSE IT IS INTERGENERATIONAL.

I’M THE OG ON THE PANEL.

IT IS GOOD TO HEAR YOUNG PEOPLE.

WE NEED ALL PERSPECTIVES AND AGES AND PEOPLE.

PARIS: SPEAKING OF THAT, WE HIT THE STREETS IN ROXBURY TO ASK PEOPLE IF THEY THINK THINGS HAVE CHANGED FIVE YEARS LATER.

FIVE YEARS AFTER THE RACIAL RECKONING AROUND THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD YOU THINK ANYTHING HAS CHANGED?

>> NO.

BECAUSE IT IS STILL HAPPENING.

I STILL SEE IT HAPPENING.

>> NO, NOT REALLY.

>> NO.

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

BETWEEN RACISM, ANTI-SEMITISM, IT HAS JUST RISEN.

>> I FEEL LIKE AMONG THE COMMUNITY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN MORE AWARE OF HOW THEY COMMUNICATE WITH EACH OTHER.

BUT I THINK SYSTEMATICALLY WE STILL HAVE WORK TO DO.

>> I DON’T THINK ANYTHING HAS CHANGED.

WE STILL HAVE INJUSTICE HAPPENING.

>> I DON’T THINK THERE HAS BEEN A SOCIETAL CHANGE IN THE SENSE THAT PEOPLE FEEL LIKE WHAT THEY WANT HAS BEEN ACHIEVED.

>> A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE MORE OPEN TO CONVERSATIONS THAT MAY BE IN 2018, 2019, WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ON THE TABLE.

I DO THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF STRUCTURAL ISSUES THAT HAVE YET TO BE RESOLVED.

PARIS: HEARING THIS, YOU MENTIONED SOME THINGS HAVE IMPROVED.

BUT WHY IS THAT NOT RESONATING ON AN EVERYDAY LEVEL?

RAHSAAN: I THINK WHEN PEOPLE WALK OUT OF THEIR DOOR AND THEIR COMMUNITY LOOKS THE SAME, SAME EMPLOYMENT OR LACK OF EMPLOYMENT, WHEN THEY ARE SEEING VIOLENCE IN THEIR COMMUNITY, THREATENED BY THE POLICE IN THE SAME WAY, IT IS HARD TO MAKE AN ASSESSMENT THAT THINGS HAVE SIGNIFICANTLY CHANGED.

I WILL SAY ON ONE END, POLICE KILLINGS HAVE PEAKED IN 2024.

HIGHEST EVER, 1365 I THINK KILLED BY POLICE IN 2024.

BUT MASSACHUSETTS HAS SEEN A SUBSTANTIAL DECLINE, 75%, AND POLICE KILLINGS.

THERE ARE CHANGES, BUT NOT THE SYSTEMIC OVERHAUL PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR.

SAME WITH EMPLOYMENT.

THERE WAS AN UPTICK IN EMPLOYMENT.

DEI INITIATIVES BROUGHT A LOT OF PEOPLE INTO BUILDINGS BUT THE BACKLASH LED TO SIGNIFICANT DECREASES AND TERMINATIONS OF A LOT OF PEOPLE.

THE MORE WE SEE SOMETHING CHANGE, THE MORE THINGS STAY THE SAME.

PARIS: I SHOULD POINT OUT HARVARD STUDY IN 2023 NOTED THAT BLACK BOSTONIANS FELT HARASSED AND TARGETED AT HIGHER RATES THAN OTHER GROUPS.

THAT WAS THREE YEARS AFTER ALL THESE REFORMS.

BOSTON IMPLEMENTED AN OFFICE OF POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY.

IT HAD A LOT OF TURNOVER.

AT ONE POINT THE WEBSITE WAS DARK.

IT WAS NOT CLEAR WHAT WAS GOING ON.

IT RAISES QUESTIONS OF SYSTEMICALLY ALL THESE EFFORTS PUT INTO PLACE.

SOUNDED GREAT AT THE TIME, BUT WHY DID THEY LOSE STEAM?

RAHSAAN: -- DAUNASIA: OUR SOCIETY IS MINUTE TO MINUTE.

ESPECIALLY WHEN FOLKS DO NOT FEEL THEY ARE DIRECTLY AFFECTED, IT IS EASY TO SAY, RAH RAH RAH, GO TO THE MARCH AND NOT DO THE FOLLOW-UP WORK.

WE ARE SEEING MORE PEOPLE RECOGNIZING THEY FALL UNDER THE UMBRELLA OF UNDESIRABLES.

SO THEY NEED TO BE PART OF THE MOVEMENT AND THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE BEEN SAYING WITH BLACK LIVES MATTER THE ENTIRE TIME.

IT IS THE CALL TO ACTION FOR ALL PEOPLE.

WHEN BLACK PEOPLE ARE FREE, WE ALL CAN BE.

PARIS: YOU ARE ORGANIZING A MARCH AND RALLY FOR GEORGIA FOR JUSTICE THIS WEEK.

HOW ARE YOU MOBILIZING PEOPLE TO JOIN YOU?

RON: RELATIONSHIPS IS KEY TO ORGANIZING.

WE ARE GOING TO THE SCHOOLS, THE COLLEGES, CHURCHES WHERE PEOPLE ARE AT, MEETING THEM WHERE THEY ARE.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THE FACT WE ARE GIVING OUT THE BLACK BOOK WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT.

WE HAD THESE SPLASHY RALLIES AND PEOPLE GO HOME AND ARE EXCITED, BUT DO NOT DO ANYTHING OR FOLLOW-UP.

PARIS: WHAT IS IT?

RON: IT IS A RESOURCE GUIDE POCKET-SIZED LIKE A PASSPORT, IT TALKS ABOUT CIVIL RIGHTS, RACIAL PROFILING, IMMIGRANT RIGHTS, CIVIL RIGHTS COMMONLY VIOLATED THAT PEOPLE DO NOT REPORT.

YOUR CIVIL RIGHTS CAN BE VIOLATED BY GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS AS WE SEE TODAY.

IT IS IMPORTANT IF, NOT THE END ALL, IT WILL NOT SOLVE ALL THE PROBLEMS, BUT AT LEAST YOU HAVE A STARTING POINT.

PARIS: YOU MENTIONED EARLIER YOU FEEL EXHAUSTED AND I THINK SO MANY PEOPLE CAN RELATE TO THE POINT WHERE YOU GO ON TIKTOK ANY TIME THERE IS A PROTEST BEING ORGANIZED CREATOR AFTER CREATOR SAYING, BLACK FOLKS, WE ARE NOT DOING THIS, WE ARE STAYING AT HOME.

CAN YOU RELATE TO THE?

[LAUGHTER] HODAN: YES AND NO.

[CROSSTALK] HODAN: LISTEN, I HAVE MY COFFEE, I WILL BE THERE ON THURSDAY.

BUT I FEEL THE SENTIMENT.

I REMEMBER LAST NOVEMBER AFTER DONALD TRUMP WON THE ELECTION I WROTE A MEDIUM ARTICLE BECAUSE I WAS LIKE, I DON’T WANT TO GO OUTSIDE OR DO ANY OF THIS, BUT I DO WANT TO WRITE HOW I AM FEELING.

A LOT OF WHAT I WAS WRITING ABOUT WAS, I’VE BEEN OUT, IN THE STREETS, TALKED TO REPORTERS, OR HAVE WRITTEN ARTICLES, TALKED TO OFFICIALS, WORKED IN ELECTED OFFICE.

I DON’T KNOW WHAT MORE I CAN PERSONALLY DO.

BUT IT IS PUSH AND PULL.

WHEN THERE IS SOMETHING YOU CARE DEEPLY ABOUT, THE EXHAUSTION IS THERE, BUT THE WILL TO WANT TO CHANGE THINGS AND CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION IS STILL THERE.

I HAVE GONE TO A PLACE, YOU WILL SHOW UP AS AN ORGANIZER NO MATTER WHAT SPACE YOU OCCUPY.

IT DOESN’T MATTER IF YOU WERE INCORPORATE, GOVERNMENT, AND ARTIST.

THERE ARE WAYS TO SHOW UP.

AS LONG AS YOU ARE HONORING THAT, THAT IS ENOUGH.

THAT IS THE SPACE I KEEP MYSELF GROUNDED IN NOW.

PARIS: ARE THERE OTHER FORMS OF PROTEST YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE?

HODAN: I WANT TO SEE ALL OF IT.

BUT FOR ME SPECIFICALLY BEING SO YOUNG DURING 2020, I REALLY CARE ABOUT YOUTH ORGANIZING, YOUTH ACTIVISM.

THERE WAS A LOT WE CAN DO TO MAKE SURE YOUNG PEOPLE FEEL LIKE THEIR VOICES MATTER AND ARE HEARD, AND THEY DON’T HAVE TO HAVE THE PERFECT LANGUAGE TO TALK ABOUT THINGS THEY LITERALLY EXPERIENCE.

BEING ABLE TO TALK ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE SHOULD BE ENOUGH.

I WILL ALWAYS BE A VOICE FOR MAKING SURE YOUNG KIDS ARE PART OF THIS MOVEMENT.

MY YOUNGEST SISTER IS 11 YEARS OLD AND SHE CAN TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS.

WE SHOULD BE CREATING THOSE SPACES AS MUCH AS WE CAN.

PARIS: WHY CAN’T WE AFFORD TO GET TIRED?

RAHSAAN: IT IS INTERESTING.

THINKING ABOUT WHY THERE IS THIS FEELING OF EXHAUSTION, WE CAN AFFORD BECAUSE TWO THINGS.

ONE, SOMEBODY DID NOT GET EXHAUSTED FOR US TO BE WHERE WE ARE.

TWO, THERE IS SOMEBODY LOOKING TO US TO NOT BE EXHAUSTED DOWN THE ROAD.

THAT IS WHAT THE CRITICAL PIECE IS.

OUR HISTORY AND PRESENCE IN THIS COUNTRY TELLS A LONG NARRATIVE OF THE RESILIENCE OF PEOPLE OF AFRICAN DESCENT.

DESPITE THE CHALLENGES, OPPRESSION, VIOLENCE, DEATH WE HAVE HISTORICALLY FACED AND CONTINUE TO FACE, WE STILL WERE RESILIENT AND RESISTANT AND PUSHED BACK.

THIS PENDULUM SWINGS BACK AND FORTH.

EVERY TIME THERE IS PROGRESS, THERE IS REGRESSION.

BUT THE MOVEMENT, GENERALLY SPEAKING, IS TOWARD PROGRESS AND WE NEED TO KEEP MOVING TOWARD PROGRESS.

PARIS: THE URBAN LEAGUE AND NCAA -- NAACP HAVE BEEN INSTRUMENTAL OVER DECADES.

AT THE SAME TIME THERE HAS BEEN GENERATIONAL PUSHBACK THAT THESE ORGANIZATIONS ARE NOT DOING ENOUGH.

YOU’RE TAKING A DEEP ANCESTRAL SIGH YOURSELF.

[LAUGHTER] RAHSAAN: WE JUST TURNED 106 YEARS OLD THIS WEEK.

THE THINGS GOING ON IN 1919 ARE VERY SIMILAR, BUT NOT THE EXACT SAME THINGS AND THE PEOPLE WE ARE TRYING TO MOBILIZE ARE NOT THE SAME PEOPLE AND THE ISSUES THEY ARE FACING AND EXPERIENCING AND THEIR UNDERSTANDING OF ORIENTATION TO THE WORLD IS DIFFERENT.

THE ACCESS TO INFORMATION.

WE HAVE TO BE MALLEABLE TO RESPOND TO THE NEEDS, INTERESTS AND CONCERNS OF PEOPLE.

RON: YOU HAD ASKED THE QUESTION, HAVE THINGS CHANGED?

IN 1992, WHEN I STARTED DUNK THE VOTE IN RESPONSE TO THE CHARLES TO IT MURDER WHEN A PREGNANT WOMAN WAS ELECTROCUTED BY HER HUSBAND.

I WAS GIVING OUT DRIVING WHILE BLACK PACKETS IN 1992.

NOW WE ARE GIVING OUT THE BLACK BOOK.

THAT GOES TO SHOW YOU IT IS STILL RELEVANT.

DAUNASIA: SOMETHING I TRIED TO BRING TO MY WORK AND TALKING TO PEOPLE MY AGE AND OLDER IS THE PARABLE OF THE CHOIR.

IT DOES NOT TAKE ALL OF US ALL OF THE TIME.

IT TAKES SOME OF US SOME OF THE TIME.

WE HAVE TO PUT IN WHAT WE CAN.

IF THAT IS ART, MUSIC, A RELIGIOUS CENTER, WHATEVER YOUR SECTOR IS, WHATEVER YOUR WORK IS, YOUR FAMILY, YOUR COMMUNITY.

THAT ALSO GIVES OTHER PEOPLE THE CHANCE TO BREATHE.

WE DON’T ALWAYS HAVE TO BE THE ONES LEADING THE MARCH.

[LAUGHTER] RON: I WAS WAITING FOR THAT.

PARIS: I WAS GOING TO ASK HODAN IF WHAT YOU’RE HEARING SPEAKS TO YOU, YOUR GENERATION.

IS IT A CONCEPT YOU CAN GET BEHIND?

HODAN: WHEN WE TALK ABOUT INTERGENERATIONAL ORGANIZING IT IS TWO FOLD.

MY GENERATION LOOKING TO WHAT HAS HAPPENED BEFORE, THE HISTORY, HOW FAR WE HAVE COME, ACKNOWLEDGING THAT.

BUT OLDER GENERATIONS LOOKING TO US AND SEEING WE ORGANIZE IN DIFFERENT WAYS.

INDIVIDUALISM IS VERY IMPORTANT TO US.

FINDING WAYS TO BRING THOSE THINGS TOGETHER AND WORK TOGETHER ACROSS GENERATIONS, I THINK THAT IS THE WAY WE DO IT.

PARIS: BLACK LIVES MATTER IS ANOTHER ITERATION OF THIS MOVEMENT.

WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THAT BUT WE ALSO KNOW BLACK LIVES MATTER HAS FACED CRITICISM IN 2020 ALONE PEERED IN JUNE, 67% BACKING FROM AMERICANS TO THE MOVEMENT BUT BY SEPTEMBER, 55%.

NOW IT IS DOWN TO 50%.

THERE WAS CONTROVERSY, THE THING WITH THE $6 MILLION MANSION THAT HAD BEEN PURCHASED BUT SPECIFICALLY TO CREATE A SAFE SPACE FOR ACTIVISTS.

DO YOU THINK PEOPLE ARE STILL BEHIND THE MOVEMENT IN THE WAY THEY WERE IN 2020 OR EVEN WHEN TRAYVON MARTIN WAS KILLED?

DAUNASIA: WITH THE PARABLE OF THE CHOIR PEOPLE GET TIRED OF NOT SEEING THE PROGRESS THEY WANT TO SEE.

I WILL ALSO SAY THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BLACK PEOPLE GETTING TIRED AND OTHER FOLKS GETTING TIRED.

I SAW IMMEDIATELY ALMOST IN 2020, WE DID THE BLACK BOX THING AND NOW WHAT?

PEOPLE JUST MOVING ON, WHICH WAS DISHEARTENING AT THE TIME.

I REMEMBER THAT.

BUT I DO THINK THERE ARE VALID CRITICISMS OF ANY MOVEMENT, ANY ORGANIZATION.

WHEN YOU BELIEVE IN THE WORK, THAT IS WHAT MATTERS.

WHATEVER YOU CALL IT, WHOEVER YOU ARE CONNECTING TO, AS LONG AS YOU ARE DOING IT.

IT MATTERS LESS TEARING DOWN WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE DOING.

CREATE YOUR OWN.

RON: THERE IS ALWAYS SOMETHING GOING ON.

[INDISCERNIBLE] HE KILLED GEORGE FLOYD.

ONE THING WE ARE DOING IN THE MARCH, NINE MINUTES AND 29 SECONDS, WHEN DEREK CHAUVIN PUT HIS FOOT ON GEORGE FLOYD’S NECK.

PEOPLE GET A CHANCE TO FEEL IT IN REAL TIME.

PEOPLE REALLY NEED TO STAY FOCUSED.

THE STRUGGLE WILL CONTINUE.

I HAVE BEEN ORGANIZING NEARLY 40 YEARS AND I’M NOT TIRED.

I FEED OFF THE ENERGY FROM YOUNGER PEOPLE.

PARIS: THERE ARE SO MANY ITERATIONS, SUB MOVEMENTS.

YOU MENTIONED BREONNA TAYLOR.

WE KNOW THE OFFICERS INVOLVED WITH BREONNA TAYLOR WERE NOT CHARGED WITH MURDER.

IT WAS WANTON ENDANGERMENT AND CONNECTED CHARGES.

WE ALSO KNOW CLEAR LIVES ARE CONTINUING TO BE FOUGHT FOR IN A SUBCATEGORY OF THE BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT.

DO THINK PEOPLE ARE RECOGNIZING THAT TO BE PART OF THIS?

OR IS IT STILL ITS OWN SEPARATE FIGHT?

DAUNASIA: FROM MY EXPERIENCE IT HAS BEEN A GLOBAL SOLIDARITY MOVEMENT.

IT HAS ALWAYS INCLUDED TRANS LIVES, PALESTINIAN LIVES, PEOPLE OF THE GLOBAL MAJORITY WHO ARE ACROSS THIS EARTH.

THAT IS NOT CHANGED FOR ME AND THE FOLKS I ORGANIZE WITH, MY COMRADES.

BUT THAT IS A MESSAGE WE NEED TO GET OUT AND MAKE SURE PEOPLE KNOW THAT.

SOME PEOPLE ARE REALIZING THEY FALL UNDER AN UMBRELLA THEY DID NOT THINK THEY DID.

I WOULD SAY THERE IS ROOM FOR YOU.

COME, PLEASE JOIN US.

PARIS: I WILL ASK EACH OF YOU A QUESTION WE ASK EVERYONE WHO COMES HERE TO "GBH NEWS ROOTED."

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT FIVE YEARS SINCE 2020, WHAT IS ONE THING KEEPING YOU ROOTED NOW?

RAHSAAN: I THINK IT IS THE LEGACY OF STRUGGLE, RESISTANCE AND OVERCOMING THAT BLACK PEOPLE IN PARTICULAR, BUT MARGINALIZED AND OPPRESSED PEOPLE HAVE BEEN PART OF CONSISTENTLY.

I FEEL LIKE I’M AN EXTENSION OF THAT AND IT IS MY OBLIGATION TO CONTINUE THAT WORK.

THAT KEEPS ME ROOTED.

HODAN: I WOULD SAY INDIVIDUAL STORIES.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS BIG MOVEMENT AND A LOT OF TIMES IT IS EASY TO GET LOST IN THE BIGNESS AND FULLNESS OF IT.

BUT TALKING TO PEOPLE ONE BY ONE, HEARING INDIVIDUAL STORIES AND HOW THEY INTERACT WITH ALL OF THIS, I THINK THAT IS SO IMPORTANT AND WANT TO SEE MORE STORYTELLING, PEOPLE ABLE TO SHARE.

I WANT TO BE ABLE TO TELL PEOPLE’S STORIES AND THE UNIQUENESS OF EVERYONE’S EXPERIENCE AND HOW THEY INTERACT.

THAT KEEPS ME IN THE WORK.

DAUNASIA: REMAINING GROUNDED IN HISTORY.

KNOWING FOR EXAMPLE THE PLANTATION THAT JUST BURNED DOWN WAS BUILT IN 1859.

THE CIVIL WAR STARTED IN 1861.

THERE WAS NEVER A PLAN TO SLOW DOWN OR STOP SLAVERY.

THEY ARE BUILDING THE MACHINE TO KILL US, BUT WE CAN STILL BURN IT DOWN.

RON: IT IS IN MY DNA.

MY MOM WAS AN ACTIVIST.

SHE WAS ONE OF THE FOLKS WHO HELPED WHEN THEY FOUGHT FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND NOW THEY OWN THE PROPERTY.

I LOVE PEOPLE, PARTICULARLY BLACK PEOPLE.

IT IS IN ME.

PARIS: ME TO, AMEN.

FIVE YEARS FROM NOW, WHERE YOU THINK THE MOVEMENT WILL BE?

RAHSAAN: I’M HOPEFUL IT WILL BE IN A BETTER PLACE.

I HAD THE BENEFIT OF LISTENING TO A FUTURIST WHO SAID TWO THINGS.

ONE, WE NEED TO STOP MAKING THE PROBLEM THE GUEST OF HONOR AT A PARTY.

TWO, WE NEED TO BE INTENTIONAL ABOUT THE FUTURE I’M CREATING, ENVISIONING AND CASTING FOR MYSELF IS ONE WHERE THERE ARE MORE ROBUST OPPORTUNITIES FOR HEALTH, WELLNESS AND TRANSFORMATION FOR BLACK FOLKS.

DAUNASIA: THAT.

[LAUGHTER] RON: EVERYBODY IS GOING TO COSIGN THAT.

PARIS: IT IS REALLY HARD BECAUSE IT TAKES UP -- TO YOUR EARLIER POINT RON, SO MUCH IS COMING DOWN DAY AFTER DAY.

DEI BACKLASH, THIS COMPANY CHANGING THEIR LANGUAGE, PEOPLE GETTING ARRESTED ON THEIR WAY TO WORK BY I.C.E.

IT CAN BE EASY TO GET TIRED, BUT I LOVE THAT.

DON’T MAKE IT -- WHAT PROBLEM, WHO WAS THAT?

RON: KEEP ON KEEPING ON, FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT.

WE WIN IN THE END.

RAHSAAN: BOOTS ON THE GROUNDS.

THAT IS A BATTLE DANCE.

[LAUGHTER] PARIS: THIS IDEA OF FATIGUE.

THERE ARE ALL THESE POSTS ABOUT THE WORLD IS ON FIRE, BUT BLACK PEOPLE ARE LEARNING A , BOOTS ON THE GROUND.

RON: WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH THIS, SEEN IT BEFORE AND WE JUST KEEP ON STRIVING.

PARIS: 100%.

I WANT TO THANK EACH OF YOU SO VERY MUCH.

THIS HAS BEEN WONDERFUL AND WE HOPE YOU COME BACK SOMETIME.

I HOPE THE MARCH GOES WELL.

THAT IS IT FOR THIS EPISODE OF "GBH NEWS ROOTED."

AS WE ALWAYS ASK, WHAT KEEPS YOU ROOTED?

AND WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT MATTER TO YOU?

WE WANT TO KNOW.

CHECK US OUT ON INSTAGRAM, YOUTUBE AND RIGHT HERE EVERY NIGHT AT 7:30.

I’M PARIS ALSTON.

HAVE A GREAT NIGHT.

♪