♪ CALLIE: WELCOME TO "BASIC BLACK."

SOME OF YOU ARE JOINING US IN OUR BROADCASTS AND OTHER DIGITAL PLATFORMS.

I AM PHILIP MARTIN.

CALLIE CROSSLEY HAS A NIGHT OFF.

TONIGHT, DEI.

SHORTLY AFTER THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD, COMPANIES AND ORGANIZATIONS EXAMINE DIVERSITY AND EQUITY PRACTICES IN THE WORKPLACE AND JOB ADS WERE POSTED SEARCHING FOR DIVERSITY EXPERTS.

THREE YEARS LATER, EMPLOYEES LEFT OUT OF FRUSTRATION OR RELATE OFF.

HAS THE MOMENT FOR DIVERSITY, EQUITY, AND INCLUSION PAST?

JOINING US THIS EVENING WITH A COFOUNDER AND CO-CEO AND HEAD OF DEI PROGRAMMING.

THE VICE CHANCELLOR FOR EQUITY AND INCLUSION AT UMASS AMHERST.

AND THE VICE PRESIDENT OF PROGRAMS FOR YW BOSTON, AND THE MANAGING DIRECTOR OF DIVERSIFIED SEARCH PREPARED WELCOME TO ALL OF YOU.

I HOPE I GOT THAT RIGHT.

DEI IS THE ACRONYM, DIVERSITY, EQUITY, INCLUSION.

IT HAS BECOME A CATCH TERM, EITHER GOOD OR BAD IN THE PUBLIC IMAGINATION, AND ONE OF THE EXTRAORDINARY THINGS ABOUT THIS ISSUE IS IT IS POLARIZING.

BUT IT IS ALSO NOT WELL DEFINED.

CAN YOU TELL US WHAT IT IS, DIVERSITY, EQUITY, AND INCLUSION, AND WHY YOU THINK IT HAS BECOME A LIGHTNING ROD?

>> WHAT I THINK IS INTERESTING AND THANK YOU FOR THE DOCTOR, BUT NOT QUITE THERE.

PHILIP: OK. >> DIVERSITY IS DEFINED BY WHERE AN ORGANIZATION IS IN THEIR JOURNEY, BECAUSE THIS IS ABOUT A JOURNEY, IN SOME ORGANIZATIONS ARE AT THE BEGINNING AND NOBODY IS AT THE END BECAUSE IT IS A MOVING TARGET AND IT DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU ARE DOING, WHERE YOU ARE IN THIS SYSTEM, THE STRUCTURAL JOURNEY, AND IT HAS TO BE IDENTIFIED BY THE GOALS OF THE ORGANIZATION.

PHILIP: WHEN WE TALK ABOUT DE I, WERE TALKING ABOUT NOT JUST RACE, BUT ANY NUMBER OF FACTORS.

TALKING ABOUT GENDER.

WE ARE -- WE ARE TALKING ABOUT GENDER.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO ARE DIFFERENTLY ABLED.

BUT FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE SINCE 2020, WHEN IT WAS, IF YOU WILL, RE-POPULARIZE, HAVE PUSHED BACK AGAINST IT, AND I'’M WONDERING WHY YOU THINK THAT IS THAT WAY?

[INDISCERNIBLE] >> THAT IS FINE.

IT IS INTERESTING BECAUSE I THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU SAID, THE FACT IT IS A MOVING TARGET WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT DEI AND I THINK SUMMER OF 2020, EVERYONE WAS HOME, AND WE WERE ALL FACED WITH SEEING THE INEQUITIES IN WAYS WE HAD NOT IN THE PAST AND F1 SAID OK, WE WILL FIX -- AND EVERYONE SAID, WE WILL FIX IT.

IT IS CONSTANTLY CHANGING.

IT IS NOT JUST RACE, IT'’S ABILITY, DISABILITY, FACTORS THAT WILL NEVER END, SO AT LEAST ONE REASON WHY WE FEEL LIKE WE HAVE STALLED WHEN THINKING ABOUT DEI'’S PEOPLE SET GOALS AND FELT LIKE THEY WERE GOING TO ACCOMPLISH IT AND BE DONE AND MOVE ON, AND IT IS NOT SOMETHING YOU CAN BE DONE AND MOVE ON FROM.

IT WILL LIVE FOREVER IN YOUR INSTITUTION, ORGANIZATION, SIMILAR TO HUMAN RESOURCES AND OTHER ASPECTS OF THE BUSINESS.

PHILIP: IT IS POLITICIZED?

>> YES.

PHILIP: IT ALSO SEEMS TO BE SOMETHING THAT INDIVIDUALS HAVE LONG RESISTED, IF YOU WILL.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THIS ISSUE AND THIS PUSHBACK, COMPANIES IN 2020 YOU THINK ABOUT JUNE 2020, IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE GEORGE FLOYD MURDER.

YOU SAW ADS APPEARING IN NEWSPAPERS AROUND THE COUNTRY.

57% OF COMPANIES PLEDGED TO BASICALLY CREATE DEI PROGRAMS THAT WERE SUBSTANTIVE.

THE PUSHBACK, AGAIN, IT HAS NOT JUST BEEN AMONG CORPORATIONS, BUT INDIVIDUALS AS WELL.

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS SO?

>> DEI REQUIRES CHANGE, AND CHANGE REQUIRES HOLDING UP THE MIRROR TO YOURSELF, AND IF YOU HAVE NOT HAD PRACTICE HOLDING THE MERE UP TO YOURSELF, YOU -- MIRROR UP TO YOURSELF, YOU MIGHT BE UPSET AT WHAT YOU SEE.

THAT IS WHY THERE IS PUSHBACK, THE IDEA THAT INSTITUTIONS DON'’T CHANGE AND STAY THE SAME.

INSTITUTIONS ARE MADE OF PEOPLE, SO THE PEOPLE HAVE TO BE WILLING TO ENGAGE IN EQUITABLE BEHAVIORS , LOOKING AT YOURSELF AND THINKING, OK, WHAT CAN I DO BETTER?

THAT IS A LARGER, LONG-TERM JOURNEY, THAN A ONE-OFF CHECKPOINT WHERE YOU CAN SAY, GREAT, WE WILL HAVE A COMPANY RETREAT AND BY THE END OF THIS WEEK NO ONE WILL BE RACIST.

THAT WILL NOT HAPPEN.

IT REQUIRES YOU TO LOOK AT YOURSELF AND THINK WHAT CAN I DO DIFFERENTLY AND HOW CAN I ENGAGE WITH OTHERS, ESPECIALLY OTHERS WHO HAVE IDENTITIES DIFFERENT FROM MY OWN.

IT'’S NOT JUST PRIORITIZING WHERE I EXPERIENCE MARGINALIZATION, WHERE OTHER PEOPLE EXPENSIVE AND WHERE IS MY SOLUTION LONG-TERM, AND HOW IS THIS SOMETHING I CAN AUDIT MYSELF REGULARLY, RATHER THAN SING GREAT, I HAVE TAKEN A COURSE THAT NOW I HAVE THE CERTIFICATE AND HAVE A BADGE ON MY SOCIAL MEDIA THAT SAYS I AM ALL SET AND I CAN MOVE ONTO THE NEXT THING.

PHILIP: THIS PUSHBACK, IF YOU WILL COME OF THIS REACTIONARY TREND AROUND THE COUNTRY, ANNUNCIATED BY PEOPLE LIKE RON DESANTIS IN FLORIDA AND GREG ABBOTT IN TEXAS PUSHING BACK AGAINST DEI, NOT JUST PUSHING BACK, BUT INSTITUTING EXECUTIVE ORDERS BASICALLY TRYING TO STOP DEI.

YOU HEAR A LOT OF FOLKS, A LOT OF FOLKS SING WELL MAYBE DEI HAS GONE TOO FAR.

WE HAVE A SITUATION IN EAST HAMPTON MASSACHUSETTS THAT HAS BEEN TALKED ABOUT IN THE NEWSPAPERS THIS WEEK WHERE A SUPERINTENDENT MADE AN OFFER THAT WAS RESCINDED BECAUSE HE USE THE TERM "LADIES THE QUESTION FOR MANY PEOPLE AND I'’M NOT PLAYING DEVILS ADEQUATE, HAS IT GONE TOO FAR?

I DON'’T THINK SO AT ALL.

I THINK WE'’VE ONLY STARTED TO SCRATCH THE SURFACE AND THAT IS WHY I BELIEVE AND I KNOW MY COLLEGES DO AS WELL MIGHT WE ARE SEEING PUSHBACK, BECAUSE AS YOU SAID, THIS TAKES CHANGE AND IT TAKES SUSTAINED WORK, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE ESPECIALLY JUNE 2020 AND BEYOND INTO 2021 THOUGHT, OK, I WILL TAKE THAT COURSE, THE TRAINING, CHECK THE BOX, AND MY WORK IS DONE COME ABOUT WHAT WE TALK ABOUT A LOT AS DEI PRACTITIONERS IS THAT THE WORK IS A MARATHON, AND WHAT I HAD INTO THAT IS THE MARATHON DOES NOT HAVE AN ENDPOINT SO THERE IS NO FINISH LINE, AND THAT REALITY IS VERY HARD TO INTERNALIZE AND ACCEPT FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE NEW TO THE WORK, BECAUSE THEY ARE LIKE, I AM TIRED, THIS IS HARD WORK, BUT THOSE OF US WITH MARGINALIZED IDENTITIES PART OF SYSTEMIC OPPRESSION BUT WE KNOW THAT ALREADY AND IT IS ABOUT BRINGING PEOPLE INTO THAT REALIZATION, YOU MENTIONED EAST HAMPTON, AND WE DON'’T KNOW ALL OF THE FACTORS WHICH IS A COMPLICATING ISSUE AROUND THAT SITUATION, BUT WHAT THE NARRATIVE RIGHT NOW IS THAT THIS SUPERINTENDENT RECEIVED A JOB OFFER AND WAS NEGOTIATING AND HE CLAIMS THAT HE WROTE IN AN EMAIL TO THE SCHOOL COMMITTEE MEMBERS AND ADDRESSED THEM AS "LADIES" AND THEY SAID THAT WAS A MICRO-AGGRESSION AND YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER SO WE ARE RESCINDING YOUR OFFER.

THAT IS PART OF THE STORY WE HAVE FROM THE SUPERINTENDENT WHO IS A WHITE MAN.

HE HAS USED THIS AS A LIGHTNING ROD TOPIC TO PULL HIMSELF NOW INTO NATIONAL NEWS.

MY THING IS THERE ARE MICRO-AGGRESSIONS IN ALL SORTS OF SHAPES, SIZES, AND FORMS, SO IT COULD HAVE BEEN A MICRO-AGGRESSION WE DON'’T KNOW BECAUSE WE DON'’T HAVE FURTHER CONTEXT, AND CONTEXT IS A BIG PIECE OF THIS, SO IS THAT THE REASON WHY HE HAD HIS JOB OFFER RESCINDED?

I CAN'’T SAY FOR SURE.

IS IT SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED?

WOULD IT HAVE BEEN UP MICRO-AGGRESSION?

POSSIBLY, BUT IT IS COMPLICATED.

PHILIP: WE HAVE SEEN THIS AND WE HAVE SEEN IT ALL OVER THE COMMONWEALTH, IN WORCESTER, FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAVE A NUMBER OF OTHER PLACES.

WE HAVE WORCESTER, LOW, NATICK --LOWELL, NATICK, WHERE OFFICIALS HAVE STEPPED DOWN AND MOVED AWAY FROM DRUGS BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT THEY ARE NOT SUPPORTED.

-- FROM JOBS BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT THEY ARE NOT SUPPORTED.

CHIME IN HERE.

THIS SUPPORT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, HOW CAN IT WORK IF THERE IS NO COMMITMENT, IF YOU WILL?

THE ASSUMPTION HERE IN THESE PARTICULAR MINUTES OF POLITIES IS THAT THEY ARE NOT SUPPORTED.

YOUR VIEW?

>> SO I WILL SAY THAT OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS THAT I HAVE PLACED QUITE A FEW AND KNOWLEDGE ROLE DIVERSITY OFFICERS -- INAUGURAL DIVERSITY OFFICERS.

IT ORGANIZATIONS HAVE TO BE CLEAR WHERE THEY ARE AND COMMUNICATE THAT TO CANDIDATES WHEN THEY TAKE ROLES.

I HAVE COME ACROSS QUITE A FEW PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN IN ROLES AND THEY HAVE COME BACK AND SAID IT IS NOT AS ADVERTISED.

PHILIP: IT IS NOT AS ADVERTISED?

>> NOT AS ADVERTISED.

I TELL CANDIDATES YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CLEAR VIEW OF WHAT YOU'’RE WALKING INTO AND ASK ALL THE RIGHT QUESTIONS TO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT YOU ARE TAKING ON.

ASK ABOUT BUDGETS.

ASK ABOUT THE REPORTING STRUCTURE.

ASK ABOUT THE GENESIS OF THE ROLE.

WHY DO IS THE ROLE NECESSARY?

FIND OUT WHAT THE BARRIERS ARE?

YOU NEED ALL OF THAT INFORMATION BEFORE WALKING INTO THIS ROLE, BECAUSE THIS ROLE IS DISRUPTIVE.

THE WHOLE IDEA OF A DEI ROLE IS DISRUPTIVE, REMOVING BARRIERS TO WORKING IN A SYSTEM THAT IS NOT SET UP FOR YOU.

YOU ARE WALKING INTO DISMANTLE IT SO YOU NEED ENERGY, SUPPORT, A BUDGET.

PHILIP: YOU HAVE TO HAVE REAL COMMITMENT.

>> YES.

PHILIP: THERE WAS A 2020 REVIEW OF 400 STUDIES WHICH BASICALLY CONCLUDED THAT DEI FOR MANY ORGANIZATIONS WAS NOT EFFECTIVE, AND FOR SOME OF THE VERY REASONS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

LET'’S GO AROUND.

THAT EFFECTIVENESS, FOR SOMETHING TO BE EFFECTIVE, IT'’S NOT JUST A QUESTION OF COMMITMENT, BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE INDIVIDUALS WHO WANT TO CHANGE.

YOU HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE FROM THE VERY BEGINNING WHO SAY I AM NOT INTERESTING IN THIS ISSUE OR WERE BROUGHT INTO IT SCREAMING.

IF THERE BROUGHT INTO IT SCREAMING, IS THERE ANY POINT TO CONTINUE TO IMPLEMENT THIS TYPE OF PROGRAM?

>> I THINK IT WILL NEVER BE SUSTAINABLE CHANGE.

THAT WAS ONE OF THE EARLIER ISSUES.

DEI IS ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE OVER THERE, NOT ME.

I DON'’T NEED TO DO ANYTHING.

IT'’S ABOUT PEOPLE WHO HAVE DIFFERENT IDENTITIES.

I DON'’T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING.

I DON'’T HAVE A PLACE THERE.

IT IS ABOUT EVERYONE.

DEI LITERALLY HAS THE WORD INCLUSION IN IT.

IT NEEDS TO INVOLVE EVERYONE.

A LOT OF THESE ARE REAL -- EARLIER ROLES THAT WERE DEVELOPED, WE WILL HAVE A CHIEF DIVERSITY OFFICER SO NO ONE ELSE NEEDS TO WORRY ABOUT THAT STUFF.

WE ARE ABSOLVING THAT ALL THIS, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THE CEOS AND OTHERS ARE SAYING NO, WE HAVE TO GET INVOLVED AND THAT FELT REALLY UNCOMFORTABLE BECAUSE IT WAS LIKE, WHO IS THIS NEW PERSON IN MY ORGANIZATION TELLING ME WHAT TO DO?

MAYBE THEY DO OR DON'’T HAVE INFLUENCE COME UP BUT I DON'’T WANT TO CHANGE ANYTHING ABOUT HOW IT ENGAGING IN THE WORKPLACE.

SOME FOLKS HAVE BEEN AT THE WORKPLACE FOR DECADES.

NO ONE HAD GIVEN THEM FEEDBACK THEY WERE GETTING IN THESE DEI INITIATIVES, SO IT FELT UNCOMFORTABLE, SUDDEN, AND QUITE FRANKLY, IT FELT LIKE A NEW THING THAT HAS BEEN IMPOSED ON ME.

IF YOU DON'’T HAVE BUY-IN AND SEE HOW WHITE SUPREMACY IMPACTS US ALL, YES, WHITE PEOPLE INCLUDED THE PATRIARCHY IMPACTS US ALL YES INCLUDING OTHERS WHO IDENTIFY DIFFERENTLY, THEN YOU WILL NEVER CHANGE IN WAYS THAT ARE SUSTAINABLE BECAUSE YOU'’RE ONLY INVESTED IN BENEFITING FROM THE INEQUITY, RATHER THAN UNDERSTANDING THAT THE ENTIRE SYSTEM IS ADVERSELY IMPACTING US ALL.

PHILIP: I SEE THAT YOU AGREE WITH THAT.

>> I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH THAT.

I AM OVER HERE AMEN-ING.

I AGREE BECAUSE I THINK ABOUT UMASS, FOR EXAMPLE, AND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE ORGANIZATIONS WHO HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL AND PROGRESSING TOWARDS THE DEI GOALS HAVE EMBEDDED DEI INTO THE FABRIC OF WHO THEY ARE IN THE POSITIONS THEY HAVE IN EXISTENCE AND NOT MADE IT SOMETHING ADJACENT TO LEADERSHIP, ADJACENT TO THE ORGANIZATIONAL GOALS, SO FOR EXAMPLE AT UMASS AMHERST, ALL LEADERS HAVE DEI GOALS AND SET DEI PRIORITIES.

IT'’S NOT JUST ME AS A CHIEF DIVERSITY OFFICER SAYING THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO AND HOW YOU HAVE TO DO IT, IT IS THOSE FOLKS LEADING THEIR ACADEMIC APARTMENTS, SCHOOLS, COLLEGES, WHO HAVE WORKED WITH ME SOMETIMES BUT SOMETIMES ON THEIR OWN TO DEVELOP THESE GOALS AND PRIORITIES RELATED TO DEI.

PHILIP: THAT MEANS YOU'’RE WORKING DIRECTLY WITH THE PRESIDENT AND DEANS?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

IN FACT, WORKING WITH THE PRESIDENT OF THE UMASS SYSTEM WHO RECENTLY PROMOTED ME TO A POSITION, IN THIS POSITION IS INTERESTING BECAUSE AGAIN, IT'’S NOT HAVING DEI ADJACENT TO LEADERSHIP ROLES, IT'’S PROMOTING ME TO A POSITION THAT OVERSEES ACADEMIC/STUDENT AFFAIRS FOR THE ENTIRE UMASS SYSTEM AS WELL AS EQUITY, SO IT IS EMBEDDING EQUITY INTO THE FABRIC OF WHO WE ARE AS AN INSTITUTION.

PHILIP: DON'’T YOU FIND IT REMARKABLE GIVEN THE JOBS THAT ALL OF YOU DO THAT HERE YOU HAVE 2020, GEORGE FLOYD, PEOPLE REACTING TO THAT, FOLKS MAKING COMMITMENTS TO FIGHT RACISM AND FIGHT GENDER BIAS, ALL FORMS OF INEQUALITY, AND YOU HAVE A SITUATION WHERE YOU HAVE POLITICIANS RUNNING AROUND THE COUNTRY TODAY, INCLUDING HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS, AGAINST, RUNNING ON A PLATFORM SPECIFICALLY AGAINST DEI AS WE SAW IN A BRAINTREE SCHOOL ELECTION.

WITH THAT IN MIND, WHEN THE FACT WE ARE NOT IN 2020 AND WE ARE IN 2023, A WHOLE DIFFERENT REALITY, HOW DO BASICALLY DEAL WITH THE IMPACT OF A SITUATION WHERE FOLKS HAVE ACTUALLY ARE CAMPAIGNING AGAINST DEI ACTIVELY?

>> IT IS CHALLENGING, FOR SURE, I THINK SO MY COMPANY, WE ARE A CONSULTING COMPANY THAT DO A LOT OF DEI CONSULTING AND TRAINING WITH CORPORATIONS AND INSTITUTIONS IN THE U.S. AND INTERNATIONALLY, AND WHAT I THINK IS WHETHER YOU ARE SOMEONE WHO WORKS AT ONE OF THESE ORGANIZATIONS ARE WHETHER YOU ARE LIVING IN A TOWN WHERE SOMEONE IS RUNNING ON THIS CAMPAIGN, WHETHER YOU ARE HUNTING FOR A NEW JOB, WHATEVER YOUR ROLE IS THAT IS A MESSAGE TO YOU SO IF YOU'’RE LIVING IN BRAINTREE, THAT PERSON RUNNING ON THAT ANTI--DEI CAMPAIGN IN MY MIND IS SAYING THE QUIET PART UP LOUD.

THAT IS HELPFUL, RIGHT, BECAUSE FOR A LONG TIME WE TAMPED IT DOWN.

FOR A LONG TIME IN THE U.S. AS WELL, WE THOUGHT WE HAD SOLVED EVERYTHING.

WE ARE IN THIS POST-RACIAL WORLD AND EVERYTHING IS AMAZING, AND THE REALITY IS THAT WE HAVE VERY DEEP ISSUES AND IT'’S NOT LIKE THAT, SO I LOOK AT IT AS A BENEFIT BECAUSE IT IS A LOUD AND CLEAR SIGNAL TO ME THAT THIS PERSON DOES NOT ALIGN WITH MY VALUES, MY BELIEFS, OR MY COMMITMENTS.

THAT BEING SAID, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE VEER INTO LEADERSHIP AND POLITICIANS, IT IS VERY DANGEROUS, SO I THINK IT IS JUST ANOTHER SYMBOL, NOT JUST RESISTANCE, THIS DEEP FEAR THAT, AND I WILL NAME IT, A LOT OF WHITE MEN A LOT OF PEOPLE WITH POWER AND PRIVILEGE ARE VERY AFRAID OF LOSING WHAT THEY HAVE GOTTEN.

AND YOU KNOW, A LOT OF TIMES WE TALK ABOUT EQUITY AND THERE ARE ANALOGIES TO EQUITY AND WHAT PEOPLE ARE AFRAID THAT I THINK IS LOSING THE BENEFITS THEY HAVE GOTTEN FROM OPPRESSING OTHERS, AND THE REALITY IS WE CAN ALL HAVE A PART OF THE PIE, BUT SOME OF US WILL HAVE TO HAVE SMALLER PIECES, AND WHAT WE ARE SEEING THESE PEOPLE ARE SAYING NO, I DON'’T WANT A SMALLER PIECE.

I WANT THE WHOLE THING OR NOTHING.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO BE HARD TO SHIFT BECAUSE IT IS TAPPING INTO A LOT OF THIS FEAR THAT PEOPLE ALL OVER THE COUNTRY HAVE, THAT RESISTANCE WILL BE VERY CHALLENGING TO OVERCOME BECAUSE IT'’S NOT SOME THING YOU CAN OVERCOME WITH TRAINING OR READING A BOOK, WITH LISTENING TO A PODCAST COME UP WITH WATCHING THIS DISCUSSION RIGHT HERE, RIGHT?

WE WILL NOT SOLVE IT ALL HERE, UNFORTUNATELY.

I WISH WE COULD BUT IT WOULD TAKE THAT LONG, SUSTAINED WORK THAT IS A CHALLENGE.

WIN LONG -- PHILIP: LONG, SUSTAINED WORK INDEED.

YOU HAVE BEEN AT THIS FOR SOME TIME AND YOU'’VE LOOKED AT THIS IN THE CONTEXT OF THE MILITARY, THE NAVY, I UNDERSTAND, IN EDUCATION OF MUNICIPALITIES, SO ON AND SO FORTH, WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO BILL SOME BROAD ACCEPTANCE -- WIN SOME BROAD ACCEPTANCE RIGHT NOW THAT DEI, BECAUSE THERE IS BROAD RESISTANCE ARTICULATED BY RON DESANTIS AND GREG ABBOTT AND OTHERS.

>> IT IS COMPLICATED, SO COMPLICATED.

WHAT I AM ENERGIZED BY IS THE FACTOR HAVING THESE CONVERSATIONS, BECAUSE IN MY 20'’S AND 30'’S, WE WERE NOT HAVING THESE CONVERSATIONS.

OUR LANGUAGE CHANGED AFTER GEORGE FLOYD.

I NEVER IN MY LIFE USE LANGUAGE LIKE WHITE FRAGILITY AND WHITE SUPREMACY.

WE DID NOT USE THOSE TERMS.

NOW MY WHITE COLLEAGUES USE THOSE TERMS, OF THE FACT THAT WE ARE CALLING IT OUT, AND I'’D LIKE WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT POLITICIANS SAYING THE QUIET POINTS OUT LOUD, BECAUSE YOU ARE RIGHT, THOSE QUIET PARTS OUT LOUD NOW TELL ME WHO YOU ARE, WHEREAS BEFORE YOU WERE STEALTH AND I DID NOT KNOW WHO YOU WERE, OF THE FACT WE ARE HAVING THESE CONVERSATIONS NOW WITH THOSE BLIND SPOTS ARE NOT SUBLIME.

SO THAT IS THE BEGINNING.

SO I THINK WHEN WE CONTINUE TO HAVE THE CONVERSATIONS THAT WE CAN START PUSHING THE ENVELOPE AND YOU CAN START LEARNING BECAUSE THOSE UNCOMFORTABLE CONVERSATIONS WHERE THE LEARNING TAKES PLACE.

I WILL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED WITH US AT MY JOB, WE WERE DOING AN EXERCISE REVIEWING RESUMES AND DECIDING WHO WE WERE GOING TO HIRE FROM A BIAS EXERCISE, AND WE LOOKED AT A RESUME THAT HAD A SORORITY LISTED ON IT.

PHILIP: OK. >> SO ABOUT A THIRD OF THE GROUP ON THIS WERE BLACK, MANAGING DIRECTORS AND ASSOCIATES, SO WE DISMISSED IT AND SAID WE WILL NOT CALL THIS PERSON BECAUSE THEY LIED.

WE FLAGGED IT A B OF THAT.

THAT DOES NOT EXIST.

RIGHT -- IT IMMEDIATELY.

THAT DOES NOT EXIST.

RIGHT.

SOMEONE SAID THAT COULD BE A SMALL SORORITY YOU NEVER HEARD OF.

WE WERE LIKE, NO IT DOESN'’T EXIST, AND WE MOVED ON.

I THOUGHT, WAIT TO HEAR AS A TEACHABLE MOMENT.

LET'’S BACK UP AND TAKE A MOMENT TO TEACH PEOPLE WHO DON'’T UNDERSTAND THE DIVINE NINE, SO NO -- NE WHO DON'’T UNDERSTAND PHILIP: SORORITY AND FRATERNITY CULTURE PHILIP: >> WHEN IT COMES TO PEOPLE OF COLOR?

SO THAT COMMENT WAS MADE FROM HER LENS BECAUSE SHE SAID I WAS IN A SORORITY THAT NO ONE HAD HEARD OF, BECAUSE IT WAS A SMALL SORORITY, SO LET ME EXPLAIN TO YOU.

WE ONLY HAVE NINE.

THAT'’S IT.

JUST NINE.

SOMETHING -- NEW ON YOU WERE ABLE TO -- NEW IF YOU'’RE NOT HAVING THOSE CONVERSATIONS, THERE'’S IS NOT AN OPPORTUNITY FOR SOMEBODY AGO, WEIGHT, WHAT?

PHILIP: IT RAISES THE QUESTION ABOUT BROADENING DEI GOALS AND DEFINITIONS.

WE HAVE A FEW MINUTES LEFT AND I WOULD LIKE TO GO AROUND AND TALK ABOUT THE NEXT CHALLENGES.

BROADENING DEI, MAKING IT SUCH THAT IT IS ACCEPTABLE TO MORE PEOPLE.

SOME PEOPLE WILL NEVER BUY IN, BUT YOU WANT OTHER PEOPLE TO BUY IN.

STARTING WITH YOU, WHAT ARE THE CHALLENGES?

HOW DO YOU EXPAND THIS?

ALSO, ANOTHER QUESTION, HOW DO YOU KEEP PEOPLE FROM, IF YOU WILL, FROM WARRING OVER EACH OTHER OVER THAT PIECE OF PIE?

>> I WILL ANSWER THE SECOND QUESTION FIRST.

WE CAN WORRY OVER THE PIECE OF PIE IN THE SHORT TERM, BUT LONG-TERM CAN WE CONTROL THE BAKERY, RIGHT?

PEOPLE WHO ARE SHORT-TERM AND LOSING OUT NOW ARE FAILING TO SEE ACTUALLY WHAT WE WILL ACHIEVE LONG-TERM, SO IN TERMS OF THE NEXT CHALLENGE, IT IS REALLY ABOUT BREAKING DOWN THE IDEA THAT DEI IS THIS LIKE NEW LIMB YOU HAVE TO GROW, NEW SET OF STRATEGIES, NEW LANGUAGE WE CAN WEAPONIZE AGAINST EACH OTHER AND MAKES PEOPLE FEEL LIKE THEY ARE EXCLUDED.

IT IS ABOUT US FEELING LIKE WE BELONG IN ANY SPACE, AND THERE ARE SO MANY STRATEGIES WE CAN EMPLOY INDIVIDUALLY, BUT ALSO AS ORGANIZATIONS AND WORKPLACES, THAT IT DOES NOT JUST HAVE TO BE A SPECIAL INITIATIVE.

YES, YOU SHOULD BE HIRING CEOS, LIKE MY COLLEAGUE OVER HERE BUT YOU NEED TO BE THINKING ABOUT THIS AS A TECHNOLOGY FOR YOUR WORKPLACE LIKE YOU WOULD UPLIFT AND OPERATION SYSTEM IN YOUR WORKPLACE AND MAKING SURE EVERYONE HAS THE TRAINING THEY NEED, IT IS ABOUT US BEING ABLE TO BE TOGETHER, NOT ABOUT CREATING INDIVIDUAL SILOS.

PHILIP: INDIVIDUAL SILOS.

YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> I AGREE.

WHEN I THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THIS WORK AND HOW IT CAN MOVE FORWARD, IT IS MOVING TOWARD SYSTEMS, PROCESSES, AND POLICIES.

WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME THINKING ABOUT INDIVIDUAL PERSON AND CHANGING INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE AND I TRIED TO SPEND MY TIME AND ADVISE THE FOLKS I'’M WORKING WITH TO SPEND THEIR TIME SHIFTING POLICIES, PROCEDURES, AND POLICIES THAT THEY BECOME MORE INCLUSIVE BECAUSE IF WE KEEP THEM THE SAME, THEY WILL PRODUCE THE SAME RESULTS.

>> TWO THINGS.

FIRST, ON THE POINT OF RESISTANCE, I AM A BIG BELIEVER IN NOT JUST MEETING PEOPLE WHERE THEY ARE AT, BUT BRINGING THEM TO WHERE THEY SHOULD BE OR WHERE THEY COULD BE FURTHER IN THEIR JOURNEY IN THE TAKE SUSTAINED WORK.

SECOND, WE WILL SEE A CONTINUATION OF THE EXPANSION OF THE LENS BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN FOCUSED FOR ALL THE RIGHT REASONS ON FREIGHT AND S IN THE CITY -- RACE AND ETHNICITY IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, BUT WERE BROADENING THE CONVERSATION FOR DISABILITY.

GENDER HAS LONG BEEN IN THE DISCUSSION AS WELL, BUT REALLY LOOKING AT THE FULL RANGE OF WHAT WERE TALKING ABOUT.

PHILIP: GOT IT.

LAST WORDS?

>> JUST AN EXCLAMATION POINT BEHIND ORGANIZATIONAL CHANGE AND MAKING SURE THAT ORGANIZATIONS ARE READY TO SUPPORT PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT SPIRIT -- DIFFERENCE.

PHILIP: THIS IS A COMPLEX TALK -- TOPIC.

WE WILL TALK ABOUT IT ON FACEBOOK AND BEYOND.

I WANT TO THANK YOU.

THIS IS INCREDIBLE.

I AM ALSO CURIOUS AND YOU CAN THINK ABOUT THIS TOO, THE NEXT STEPS THAT OCCUR NATIONALLY, 2024.

DEI WILL BE PART OF THE ELECTION 2024, WITHOUT QUESTION.

FOLKS, THAT IS THE END OF OUR BROADCASTS IN THE END OF OUR SHOW.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

STAY WITH US AS WE CONTINUE OUR CONVERSATION ON OUR DIGITAL PLATFORMS, YOUTUBE, AND FACEBOOK.

[JAZZ MUSIC PLAYS] ♪